Blasphemy and satanic and/or anti-christian bands

[PH]

Just a few minutes ago I was searching Google because I wanted to know wether Devon Graves (Dead Soul Tribe) is a christian. 'Cuz in the latest iO Pages (a Dutch prog magazine) he is among Ty Tabor (King's X) Neal Morse and Dave Bainbridge (Iona) called reli-philosophers...

Well... I didn't find my answer, but I came on a website that reviews a lot of Metal bands.
There was also a band called Dementor, a Slovakian band. They made an album "God Defamer". Of course this caught my attention so I forgot about what I was googling for and read with horror...

In February 1992 the first demo "THE EXTINCTION OF CHRISTIANITY" sung in Slovak language and consisting of 9 fast death metal songs comes out. The direction of this demo is totally anti-christian. Just anti-christian themes are the strongest points appearing in DEMENTOR´s lyrics till today.

In 1993 the second demo entitled "MORBID INFECTION" takes turn consisting another six-some madly brutal songs.

DEMENTOR records the debut album "THE CHURCH DIES" realised on MC format in 1994. This album was edited by young Slovak label IMMORTAL SOULS PRODUCTIONS. The same label is ready to realise DEMENTOR´s first CD "KILL THE THOUGHT ON CHRIST" in 1997. DEMENTOR offers there 8 ways to kill Jesus Christ plus one interesting cover song on the album.

In July DEMENTOR arrives to Pro Art Studio to record long awaited material entitled "THE ART OF BLASPHEMY". The result is very fast and brutal death metal. The recorded material is the fastest one in band´s career.

June 8th is the date of DEMENTOR´s arrival to Pro Art Studio. There was recorded its third CD "ENSLAVE THE WEAK". You will find there 9 new brutal death metal songs also full of blasphemous and dark melodies on the album. This piece of raw brutality is out on OSMOSE since January 15th,  2001.

They get into the studio again in October 2003.  The result is totally brilliant exhibition of brutal, ultra-fast & blasphemous death metal. Another 9 musical sins will be unleashed on OSMOSE PRODUCTIONS under a strong title “GOD DEFAMER”. The change of the studio gives strong potential to this record as well as the great production work of Andy Classen. Once “GOD DEFAMER” makes your speakers bleed you are caught in the circle of blasphemy. You will better start defaming the god ………. Once and for all!

Why are these bands doing this? This is not just criticism. I can take criticism, it keeps you fresh and alert, but this is just disgusting, sickening... Argh!!

I'm not someone who tries to convert people to christianity where I can. I leave that to God Himself. But I was just wondering, what do you guys think of this?

[Nicky007]

But I was just wondering, what do you guys think of this?

I think it's best to ignore these things, Paco, quite truly. It's better that such demonic forces work in the open. Then we can stop them, if they go too far. Because when they operate clandestinely, they end up doing terrible things like the Twin Tower attack and occult human sacrifices.

A lot of this is teenage rebellion, although it can be rather ugly. Almost all of these guys end up falling truly in love, marrying, getting kids, and most of'm even become Christians later in life (except Marilyn Manson, who's pathetic, and a few others).

The line between great heavy with a critical edge and blasphemy is often blurry, but that just challenges our critical sense. E.g. I spent a lot of time checking up on Opeth, because if I had experienced them as anti-Christian in any way, I would have cracked my Opeth CD's; but instead I experience them as edifying.

Nicky.

[PH]

Yeah I see...

But who are the morons who contract these bands?
Why would a label promote this kinda bands?
And who would want to ask such bands to play in their cities?

It makes me wanna raaaaaaaaaage!!
RHAAAA!!!

Hehehehe...

[maddox]

Actually, it's nothing new under the sun Paco. There are a lot of these kind of bands. Deicide for instance is a band that 'preached' these kind of things for many years.
Though i'm not a Christian or anything like that (officially)  i don't approve these kind of bands. Not only the music is terrible, the lyrics are too and sometimes pure insulting.

Why would a label promote this kinda bands?
And who would want to ask such bands to play in their cities?

The answer to those question would be because it sells. The world is a beautiful place but it has it's darkness. There are some pretty goofed out spirits out there.

But it raises a tiny question though. If you consider Christianity a religion, and this might be a bit tricky to ask this (excuse me if it is) but isn't Satanism also one? Without the ritual things and sacrificing stuff it somewhere is one too i guess. But when it gets messy, to me it becomes inhuman. And there's the paradox to that statement. 

It's better that such demonic forces work in the open. Then we can stop them, if they go too far.

I agree with you on that one. Though i'm a bit afraid of the consequences if they do. There are a lot of things we don't see or witness and lets face it, sometimes ignorance is bliss.
I'm reluctant to say that i believe that there are definitely some fishy things happening under the surface. 

Because when they operate clandestine, they end up doing terrible things like the Twin Tower attack...

That remark troubles me a bit, Nicky. Though i don't think you meant it that way it basically means that you don't consider Islam as a religion. And if you or anyone else head for that direction you get lost.

I believe that if there's a God then there's only but one God. Weather it is called God or Hindoe or Allah for that matter.
The difference, at least in my opinion though i must add that i'm not an expert on that matter, is that the people who read the Bible or the Koran or any religious book that exist, interpret the words in their own, sometimes very wrong way.
And in that also lies the danger. In the end it's the human conscience that starts that fire. Not the holy book. Any book whatsoever. 

[Nicky007]

But who are the morons who contract these bands?
Why would a label promote this kinda bands?
And who would want to ask such bands to play in their cities?

It makes me wanna raaaaaaaaaage!!

Well, at least Maddox is happy that you're not raging at him  

See, Paco, here's something quite serious: Once you move outside of Northern Europe, you're in a world where evil is much more tangible than we're used to here.

Someone once told me that Dag Hammarskjöld, the probably greatest UN General Secretary yet, had said that what had made the deepest impression on him during his years as General Secretary was that he experienced evil as he never had before.

That struck me. Unfortunately I haven't yet been able to find the quote.

Nicky.

[PH]

Actually, it's nothing new under the sun Paco. There are a lot of these kind of bands. Deicide for instance is a band that 'preached' these kind of things for many years.
Though i'm not a Christian or anything like that (officially)  i don't approve these kind of bands. Not only the music is terrible, the lyrics are too and sometimes pure insulting.

Yeah, and insulting is bad and should be "punished" I think.

But it raises a tiny question though. If you consider Christianity a religion, and this might be a bit tricky to ask this (excuse me if it is) but isn't Satanism also one? Without the ritual things and sacrificing stuff it somewhere is one too i guess. But when it gets messy, to me it becomes inhuman. And there's the paradox to that statement. 

You are so right Maddox! For me, the term "religion" is something different to "faith". Because as a Christian I believe that every person can have a personal relationship with God, while religion makes you think of an organised institute. Well, that's for me anyway.
Satanism is a religion indeed. In fact it's christianity in reverse so to speak. They know the Bible, and many of the things that are written in there, they think of as true. But they choose by own will for Satan or Lucifer as they'd like to call him. (Satan is just a hebrew word meaning "enemy", Lucifer is the real name of the "fallen angel")

There are a lot of things we don't see or witness and lets face it, sometimes ignorance is bliss.

Yes... maybe you're right.

I believe that if there's a God then there's only but one God. Weather it is called God or Hindoe or Allah for that matter.

In fact "Allah" is just the Arab word for "God". [Offtopic mode on] This makes me think about a catholic priest in The Netherlands who said that we should all speak of "Allah" instead of "God", that way we (christians and muslims) won't fight anymore... I think that's stupid...

Ahem back on topic again.

The difference, at least in my opinion though i must add that i'm not an expert on that matter, is that the people who read the Bible or the Koran or any religious book that exist, interpret the words in their own, sometimes very wrong way.
And in that also lies the danger. In the end it's the human conscience that starts that fire. Not the holy book. Any book whatsoever. 

Your hitting the nail on the head, I'm glad that you see it like I do.

I'm glad that you people are very serious about this matter.
Thanks so far and go on if you will!


-Paco

[PH]

Well, at least Maddox is happy that you're not raging at him  

See, Paco, here's something quite serious: Once you move outside of Northern Europe, you're in a world where evil is much more tangible than we're used to here.

Evil is everywhere, just in different degrees!

Someone once told me that Dag Hammarskjöld, the probably greatest UN General Secretary yet, had said that what had made the deepest impression on him during his years as General Secretary was that he experienced evil as he never had before.

People can be really evil sometimes... flashing fire in their eyes etcetera... But evil and evil are two...

[Nicky007]

If you consider Christianity a religion, and this might be a bit tricky to ask this (excuse me if it is) but isn't Satanism also one?

To answer that question, we must revert to the root meaning of the word "religion". It has three parts: "re", "lig", and "ion". "Lig" comes from "ligare", which is a Latin verb meaning "to bind". "Ion" is a suffix denoting action or condition. So "religion" is the action of rebinding our ties to God, or the condition of being rebound with God.

Thus Christianity, Islam, the Mosaic Faith, Hinduism, and Buddhism are all religions. There are many more. However, Satanism is not a religion, because instead of seeking God or godliness, it rejects these.

Christianity is my choice of faith, and I have my preferences among the other religions, but I uphold any person's right to his or her faith or agnosticism or atheism, as long as s/he respects my right.

So if people practice witchcraft or even Satanism without manipulating outsiders, I'm not going to try to restrict their freedom, although I might want to dispute their values.

Nicky.

[maddox]

However, Satanism is not a religion, because instead of seeking God or godliness, it rejects these.

But if you turn that one around you'll end up having the same thing. Satanists (don't know if that's the proper word) are seeking their own God, in this case is Lucifer, which can be described as a 'faith' too.
And are probably rejecting your religion too. I deliberately say 'probably' because it is my believe that there are people who although they have one faith, respects the other.
The path to salvation. 

Christianity is my choice of faith, and I have my preferences among the other religions, but I uphold any person's right to his or her faith or agnosticism or atheism, as long as s/he respects my right.

So if people practice witchcraft or even Satanism without manipulating outsiders, I'm not going to try to restrict their freedom, although I might want to dispute their values.

Nicky.

Like i said: Agree. 

But..

as long as s/he respects my right.

What if he/she doesn't? What would you do then?
That for some might be the trigger to start a war. My father once said that there are two ingredients in the soup of war: Oil and Religion.
Sounded pretty stupid back then (i was about 10 years old) but i have grown to think differently. Unfortunately.

In fact "Allah" is just the Arab word for "God". [Offtopic mode on] This makes me think about a catholic priest in The Netherlands who said that we should all speak of "Allah" instead of "God", that way we (christians and muslims) won't fight anymore... I think that's stupid...

That's what i think too. The only way Christians and Muslims can live together if we respect our own believes and faiths. Not by calling one's God Allah or Allah God. Like i said, i think it's the same God with only a different name.

Having said that, i never really read the Bible entirely and never read anything of the Koran so the "user's manual" might be totally different without me knowing it. 

[Appelmoes??]

Haven't read all the post besides the opening post, and I think this is just pure discrimination, and I really feel Christians should sue a band like this for all the've got. If a band would sing songs like that about *insert random ethnical minority* they would be sued so fast they wouldn't even have time to soundcheck their triangle...
It's truely sad people are allowed to say anything they want about believers of any religion, while it's pretty much illegal throughout the world to discriminate other people. Isn't that hypocritical? Another fine example of how f'ed up this world is, and it makes me sad and lose hope for mankind

[maddox]

Haven't read all the post besides the opening post, and I think this is just pure discrimination, and I really feel Christians should sue a band like this for all the've got. If a band would sing songs like that about *insert random ethnical minority* they would be sued so fast they wouldn't even have time to soundcheck their triangle...
It's truely sad people are allowed to say anything they want about believers of any religion, while it's pretty much illegal throughout the world to discriminate other people. Isn't that hypocritical? Another fine example of how f'ed up this world is, and it makes me sad and lose hope for mankind

Agree. Besides freedom of speech a men's/women's freedom of religion is unquestionable too. It's all about respect.

But and there you go again, isn't saying anything about any other religion a freedom of speech too? Where does it end?
For me it ends with insulting. Speaking about other religion is good and you might even learn something of it but it ends with insulting.

And unfortunately some of those lyrics are insulting. 

[Nicky007]

But if you turn that one around you'll end up having the same thing. Satanists (don't know if that's the proper word) are seeking their own God, in this case is Lucifer, which can be described as a 'faith' too.

You have a point there, Maddox. There are different types of Satanists, some of them so-called Theistic Satanists, and if they want to be regarded as religious, I would accept that.

What if he/she doesn't? What would you do then?

Good question. Fortunately I don't experience any restrictions. But if they arose, to some extent I could tend my faith in privacy. But at some point, I would fight them. And I would never officially profess any other religion than Christianity, even if I had to pay for it with my life.

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

... I think this is just pure discrimination, and I really feel Christians should sue a band like this for all they've got.

I like your temperament, Appy, but doesn't it just show the strength of Christianity that we can take people throwing all sorts of shit at us without blinking?

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

In fact "Allah" is just the Arab word for "God". [Offtopic mode on] This makes me think about a catholic priest in The Netherlands who said that we should all speak of "Allah" instead of "God", that way we (christians and muslims) won't fight anymore... I think that's stupid...

Allah most certainly is the same Being as God. I prefer to refer to Him as God, as that belongs to my upbringing, but it doesn't bother me at all that other people refer to Him as Yahweh or Allah, because I know that we are talking about the same Being. But then there are other major differences between the religions that make me prefer Christianity.

Nicky.

[bluepony]

Well, I personally would prefer a religion with a loving mother-goddess instead of a revengeful god, but since I haven't found one around here I just stick with Christianity instead. 

[Nicky007]

Bluey, there's a second part of the Bible called The New Testament 

Nicky.

[Appelmoes??]

Yeah, Bible 1.0 is like: FEEL MY WRATH!!! and LET MY PEOPLE GO!!! and then some more FEEL MY WRATH!! All for a good cause ofcourse *angelface*
And bible 2.0 is like: Spread the loooooove dudes!

[Nicky007]

LOL, Appy. You have a nice way of making things clear 

Nicky.

[bluepony]

Maybe I should get that update... 

[PH]

Yeah, Bible 1.0 is like: FEEL MY WRATH!!! and LET MY PEOPLE GO!!! and then some more FEEL MY WRATH!! All for a good cause ofcourse *angelface*
And bible 2.0 is like: Spread the loooooove dudes!

LOL!
I was reading Maleachi recently, you should all read it, it's a very interesting chapter of the Bible.
It starts with "I have loved you, said the LORD." and then follows a whole dialog between God (through the words of Maleachi) and the people of Israel.
This chapter makes it clear that people don't want to know about God, or don't know in what they have disappointed God. A very interesting read.

As is most of the Bible of course!

This band and other bands like this are very insulting. It goes far beyond expressing your opinion. Freedom of speech can be very foolish sometimes.
I took a look at one of their lyrics and was shocked... Are these people so frustrated or something? I wonder what makes them so full of hate against religion (and christianity in particular)

[bluepony]

Well, let's hope they will grow out of it soon...! (Which, by the way, is the usual thing to happen to most of these bands.)

I think you're right, Paco, it IS quite shocking - and even more frustrating than the fact that there are bands that produce this ... whatever you want to call it ... is that there are people who will listen to it! 

[PH]

Do you guys/girls ever have heard of Aleister Crowley?

And do you know that there exists a Satanic Bible?

[bluepony]

Yep, heard of both. We actually talked about Crowley and other Satanic 'organisations' at school in (don't laugh now!!) religious education class. I guess it was part of their effort to drive us (we were 4 guys and 2 chicks jokily called "The Black Knights" by our Latin teacher) away from 'the dark side'.  (We "Black Knights" loved to wear (black) band t-shirts for school, so that's where we got the name from. My nick, Bluepony, is from the same time...)

[sMARTINside]

You can download a PDF version of the Satanic Bible here:

It's not my religion, but I guess that it would be interesting to read:

http://std.kku.ac.th/4830401674/The%20Satanic%20Bible.pdf