News:

contact: webmaster <at> shattered <dash> room <dot> net
write me a message if you are unable log in, if you need to recover your account, or if you would like to register a new account; also if the email address you used here before is not valid anymore.

Main Menu

Favourite 'old' prog band.

Started by Moonloop, Wed, 2005-09-14, 16:45:33

Previous topic - Next topic

Three votes allowed - youngsters can vote too..!!

Yes
17 (35.4%)
Pink Floyd
27 (56.3%)
E.L.P.
6 (12.5%)
Camel
7 (14.6%)
Barclay James Harvest
2 (4.2%)
Wishbone Ash
0 (0%)
Focus
0 (0%)
Uriah Heep
5 (10.4%)
Genesis
35 (72.9%)
The Enid
2 (4.2%)

Total Members Voted: 48

PH

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-04-23, 19:34:54OK Paco, this is getting a bit convoluted, but if you're saying that the lyrics are less important than the (instrumental) music, that would surprise me.
Yes. I primarily listen to "music", and secundarily to "lyrics". You can say "I'm grooving on the music" but you can't groove on a lyric... :-\ Of course you can find a certain lyric really striking. But then you don't need the music with it and could just as well buy a poetry bundle.

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-04-23, 19:34:54E.g. what would Contagion be without all the fabulous mythological references ?
Contagion without the singing would still be prog. And thanks to the dynamics and interesting music, I think I would still enjoy that album. What about you Nicky? Would you still enjoy Contagion without singing?

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-04-23, 19:34:54To me iac, the lyrics are an essential part of the music.
I agree to some extend. To me, the lyrics really add to the feel of the music and to be honest, what's done is done. Indeed, it's hard to imagine Ascension without vocals. But you can't imagine Riding The Tide WITH singing either. That's just because you're getting used to it. When Arena would decide to release a full instrumental album, I'd certainly buy it. But when Britney Spears [or any pop machine] makes an instrumental album...

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-04-23, 19:34:54I like instrumental pieces here and there, but I rarely go for an entire album without lyrics.
Ok, let's put it this way.
What if you got two CDs: an instrumental Abbey Road from The Beatles and an instrumental Contagion from Arena. Both without any singing on it. But still the lyrics are printed in the booklet.
Which album would you prefer? And what's the difference between these two "stripped" albums?

I'm not saying that the Beatles [or any pop artist/band] is bad. Just that it's not prog. I can appreciate music that's focused on singing, but it's different from Prog (which is more focused on the music).


-Paco

Nicky007

#51
Contagion without Rob singing ?  No way  :o

I would like neither Abbey Road nor Contagion without the singing.

Arena are actually a very singing oriented group. Clive's a great lyricist. OK, there's some fabulous guitar playing by John, but that couldnt carry a whole album.

The times of long atmospheric Floydian instrumental passages are over. We have a shorter attention span today.

If we're talking about exciting instrumental prog, we have to cross the Atlantic where we find musicians who have a greater spectrum of expression like Steve Vai and Michael Harris, and groups like Aghora, Stride, Thought Chamber, and Zero Hour. Also DT could make a great instrumental album, although I would miss Jamie terribly.

OK, Sieges Even could also pull it off. And Spiral Architect. But the British groups are so very singing oriented.

Removing the lyrics and singing from prog is like removing the guitar, bass, or drums. OK, it can be done, but why ?

Also, poetry and rock lyrics are entirely different things.

Nicky.

So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

Nicky007

So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

Deenfan

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-04-23, 23:21:04
Removing the lyrics and singing from prog is like removing the guitar, bass, or drums. OK, it can be done, but why ?

Also, poetry and rock lyrics are entirely different things.

I agree a lot on the first. Good point. But the second point seems a bit too narrow, for want of a better word. Some rock lyrics are pure poetry. And to my mind, those are the best, most beautiful lyrics. I don't quite manage to see the attraction in lyrics with no poetic side to them. "Hell yeah, it's Saturday nite and we'll party... come on baby" and all that is typical rock lyrics, devoid of poetry. And if you ask me, they either suck or are idling words, just there because there is a singer present. The lyrical equivalent of a drum machine keeping time and not much else.

Shadow Gallery had some wonderful, poetic lyrics on the "Carved in stone" album. I feel an urge to kiss the ground before their feet...

To the topic, is Marillion an 'old' prog band? If not, I don't know what to reply. I don't much enjoy any of them. I like a lot of the bands they inspired, though.

Nicky007

#54
Quote from: Deenfan on Thu, 2008-04-24, 14:57:51
But the second point seems a bit too narrow, for want of a better word. Some rock lyrics are pure poetry. And to my mind, those are the best, most beautiful lyrics.

Deenie, I'l give you a sublime sample of true poetry, from Robert Browning's Paracelsus, beginning of Part V:

Thus the Main glideth
Where my Love abideth.
Sleep's no softer: it proceeds
On through lawns, on through meads,
On and on, what'er befall,
Meandering and musical,
Through the niggard pasturage
Bears not on its shaven ledge
Aught but weeds and waving grasses
To view the river as it passes,
Save here and ther a scanty patch
Of primroses too faint to catch
A weary bee.
And scarce it pushes
Its gentle way through strangling rushes
Where the glossy kingfisher
Flutters when noon-heats are near,
Glad the shelving banks to shun,
Red and steaming in the sun,
....

See, this is English poetry at its best.

I would say that it would be a pity to sing this in any way. It's so powerful in itself. All it needs is some Laurence Olivier or Kenneth Branagh who can render it sublimely in speech. And then I'm as ecstatic as when listening to Contagion (NP).

What one can do with such poetry is recite it with some background music, but then the music has to be just as sublime.

Somebody like Clive could do it (hint?) :)

But of course there's a lot of fine poetry in rock lyrics, just not quite up to this extraordinary level.

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

PH

Well, I simply do not agree, Nicky.
I know your point, you know mine.
And I'm fine with it. :)

I still love you.

-Paco

bluepony


Nicky007

#57
Quote from: PH on Thu, 2008-04-24, 20:34:28
Well, I simply do not agree, Nicky.

Hey Paco, now you're being Appish. What don't you agree about ?

Would Contagion be just as good without the lyrics and Rob's singing ?

Sure would keep us wondering what in living hell is mean by "Contagion". Then it could just as well be called Opus 5 (1.movement: Allegro con moto; 2. mm: Andante ....).

I'l love you more (in a temporal sense) if you make an effort to answer me properly  :)

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

PH


Deenfan

This is turning into a very proggy thread. Twists and turns unimaginable...

Well, Nicky, that is certainly a fine piece of poetry, although not smack in the middle of what I would prefer personally. I do absolutely see your point, and based on that perspective and your prepositions, it is a matter of "case closed". There are also lyrics that can be proclaimed more than sung, with success, or vice versa.

This is my kind of poetry; it reads out really well, it could be rendered sublimely in speech, I think, but the main point is I like my poetry sung, to music. So it's a bit of a different animal, I think you'll agree. Ok, here goes:


3. Don't Ever Cry, Just Remember

[Music: B. Allman, C. Ingles, G. Wehrkamp Lyrics, Vocal Melodies: C.Cadden-James]

I must have stood for hours
The mist of dawn still rising
Brushing from my face
Cold tears of finally knowing
The world that we had twisted
The years of strength and glory
Were wicked and obscene
And there we stood so proud
What legends we must be
Really something to behold Lord
So irresponsible
With the powers of creation
A princess crowned in jewels
Robed in the finest cloth
Dauntlessly invincible
So perfect so unreal

In one great moment judgements fallen
Babylon no longer there
Gone are her streets her giant towers
Disappeared into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

It must have been my mood
I'm usually much stronger now
I know there's just one way
And this is how it has to be
There was poison in our thoughts
And there was hatred in our eyes
Suddenly something came
Something made it right
We purged our hearts and souls
And we saw through children's eyes
Not stifled by the pain
Not blinded by our
Human nature don't you see at all
The wisdom of our suffering
The lies behind our ways
The reasons for the end

From the moment I was raptured
Babylonia disappeared
I now return here a survivor
The rest have vanished to thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

The wind blows cold tonight
No lamplights from no windows
I am sure enough alone
And I am sure enough alive
So through eternity
The gift of light gets passed along
to those of us who saw
What the rest could never see
Born to a fallen world
Longing for a morning star
Held on high
For me
As this vision comes to close
The last footsteps ever wonder here
They echo in my mind
Never to return

All is done and slowly fading
Babylon she once stood there
I walked her streets I climbed her mountains
I disappear into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

- - - - - - - -

I mourn those who go through life without appreciating something like this. And I am heartened that there are people writing like this, when I cannot. Where is the "solemn" emoticon....?

Nicky007

#60
Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2008-04-25, 03:47:17
I think you'll agree.

Betcha, Deenie. So no

Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2008-04-25, 03:47:17
twists and turns unimaginable

from me this time  :)

But I'm still waiting for somethin from Paco - or has the big mouth all of a sudden shriveled  ;D

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

Bupie

Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2008-04-25, 03:47:17
3. Don't Ever Cry, Just Remember

[Music: B. Allman, C. Ingles, G. Wehrkamp Lyrics, Vocal Melodies: C.Cadden-James]

I must have stood for hours
The mist of dawn still rising
Brushing from my face
Cold tears of finally knowing
The world that we had twisted
The years of strength and glory
Were wicked and obscene
And there we stood so proud
What legends we must be
Really something to behold Lord
So irresponsible
With the powers of creation
A princess crowned in jewels
Robed in the finest cloth
Dauntlessly invincible
So perfect so unreal

In one great moment judgements fallen
Babylon no longer there
Gone are her streets her giant towers
Disappeared into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

It must have been my mood
I'm usually much stronger now
I know there's just one way
And this is how it has to be
There was poison in our thoughts
And there was hatred in our eyes
Suddenly something came
Something made it right
We purged our hearts and souls
And we saw through children's eyes
Not stifled by the pain
Not blinded by our
Human nature don't you see at all
The wisdom of our suffering
The lies behind our ways
The reasons for the end

From the moment I was raptured
Babylonia disappeared
I now return here a survivor
The rest have vanished to thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

The wind blows cold tonight
No lamplights from no windows
I am sure enough alone
And I am sure enough alive
So through eternity
The gift of light gets passed along
to those of us who saw
What the rest could never see
Born to a fallen world
Longing for a morning star
Held on high
For me
As this vision comes to close
The last footsteps ever wonder here
They echo in my mind
Never to return

All is done and slowly fading
Babylon she once stood there
I walked her streets I climbed her mountains
I disappear into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

- - - - - - - -

I mourn those who go through life without appreciating something like this. And I am heartened that there are people writing like this, when I cannot. Where is the "solemn" emoticon....?

This is a song from Shadow Gallery's Carved in Stone LP, isn't it ?

PH

Ok Nicky...

The lyrics give it an extra touch. I agree 100%.
But what I'm just saying is that if the Beatles would have silly lyrics, they wouldn't be prog right?
But if Arena got silly lyrics, then it would still be prog, thanks to the music.

I don't know how to say it better than how I just said it. For me it's obvious.

It's hard to get a prog band with silly lyrics though, because proggers are often very interested in deep lyrics.
But alright, I think A.C.T comes close:

Quote from: A.C.T, She/MaleShe Grew Up, Became A Man, What's Going On?
Parents Told Her:
Disappear, Don't Turn Around.
Please, Never Come Back,
Go Away, And Pack Your Bags, Filthy One.

Filled With Sorrow She Threw Out Some Of Her Old Clothes.
All Her Skirts She Now Had Drowned In Gasoline.
Flames Touching The Sky,
Burning Up Her Old Life, No Regrets.

Growing A Beard, Finally A Man.

Please Accept That She Is Nothing But A Normal Guy.
We Can't Help That She's Been Raised In A Narrow-Minded World.
Scratching His Crutch, Just Like Real Men Do.
Filled With Strength, Takes Another Step.

To Become A Full-Grown Man She Needed Help.
A Crazy Little Swedish Surgeon Took Her Case.
Cut, Pasted And Sewed, Changing Her Totally, Renewed And Gay.

Shoulders Now Broad, Finally A Man.

Please Accept That She Is Nothing But A Normal Guy.
We Can't Help That She's Been Raised In A Narrow-Minded World.
Scratching His Crutch, Just Like We All Do.
Filled With Strength, Entering The World!

Something Appeared.
What A Nice Surprise That Was.

Very silly lyrics (and A.C.T has more and more and MORE of these silly lyrics), but the music is VERY prog.
So this is a fully progressive band, but without the thing that makes prog prog (according to Nicky).

-Paco

Nicky007

#63
Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2008-04-25, 03:47:17
3. Don't Ever Cry, Just Remember

[Music: B. Allman, C. Ingles, G. Wehrkamp Lyrics, Vocal Melodies: C.Cadden-James]

I must have stood for hours
The mist of dawn still rising
Brushing from my face
Cold tears of finally knowing
The world that we had twisted
The years of strength and glory
Were wicked and obscene
And there we stood so proud
What legends we must be
Really something to behold Lord
So irresponsible
With the powers of creation
A princess crowned in jewels
Robed in the finest cloth
Dauntlessly invincible
So perfect so unreal

In one great moment judgements fallen
Babylon no longer there
Gone are her streets her giant towers
Disappeared into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

It must have been my mood
I'm usually much stronger now
I know there's just one way
And this is how it has to be
There was poison in our thoughts
And there was hatred in our eyes
Suddenly something came
Something made it right
We purged our hearts and souls
And we saw through children's eyes
Not stifled by the pain
Not blinded by our
Human nature don't you see at all
The wisdom of our suffering
The lies behind our ways
The reasons for the end

From the moment I was raptured
Babylonia disappeared
I now return here a survivor
The rest have vanished to thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

The wind blows cold tonight
No lamplights from no windows
I am sure enough alone
And I am sure enough alive
So through eternity
The gift of light gets passed along
to those of us who saw
What the rest could never see
Born to a fallen world
Longing for a morning star
Held on high
For me
As this vision comes to close
The last footsteps ever wonder here
They echo in my mind
Never to return

All is done and slowly fading
Babylon she once stood there
I walked her streets I climbed her mountains
I disappear into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember


Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2008-04-25, 03:47:17
3. Don't Ever Cry, Just Remember

[Music: B. Allman, C. Ingles, G. Wehrkamp Lyrics, Vocal Melodies: C.Cadden-James]

I must have stood for hours
The mist of dawn still rising
Brushing from my face
Cold tears of finally knowing
The world that we had twisted
The years of strength and glory
Were wicked and obscene
And there we stood so proud
What legends we must be
Really something to behold Lord
So irresponsible
With the powers of creation
A princess crowned in jewels
Robed in the finest cloth
Dauntlessly invincible
So perfect so unreal

In one great moment judgements fallen
Babylon no longer there
Gone are her streets her giant towers
Disappeared into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

It must have been my mood
I'm usually much stronger now
I know there's just one way
And this is how it has to be
There was poison in our thoughts
And there was hatred in our eyes
Suddenly something came
Something made it right
We purged our hearts and souls
And we saw through children's eyes
Not stifled by the pain
Not blinded by our
Human nature don't you see at all
The wisdom of our suffering
The lies behind our ways
The reasons for the end

From the moment I was raptured
Babylonia disappeared
I now return here a survivor
The rest have vanished to thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

The wind blows cold tonight
No lamplights from no windows
I am sure enough alone
And I am sure enough alive
So through eternity
The gift of light gets passed along
to those of us who saw
What the rest could never see
Born to a fallen world
Longing for a morning star
Held on high
For me
As this vision comes to close
The last footsteps ever wonder here
They echo in my mind
Never to return

All is done and slowly fading
Babylon she once stood there
I walked her streets I climbed her mountains
I disappear into thin air
Don't ever cry just remember

Hey, great text, gets better and better with every quote  *horns*

Isnt it from the Carved In Stone album ?

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

Nicky007

#64
Quote from: PH on Fri, 2008-04-25, 09:43:25

Very silly lyrics ....

Disagree !  There's a very important message about narrow-mindedness and lack of love and tolerance.

This song is probably inspired by the story of a real person they knew or read about.


Quote from: PH on Fri, 2008-04-25, 09:43:25
... proggers are often always very interested in deep lyrics.

Helped you a bit there  ;D

I think we basically agree, Paco. The difference seems to lie in your missing Beatles experience. But you can do somethin bout that ......  ;)

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

PH

Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2008-04-25, 10:19:57Disagree !  There's a very important message about narrow-mindedness and lack of love and tolerance.
Oh please...

Just compare that A.C.T-song with the lyric by Shadow Gallery.

I can write lyrics like that A.C.T-song.
But writing the music, is a lot more difficult.

Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2008-04-25, 10:19:57I think we basically agree, Paco. The difference seems to lie in your missing Beatles experience. But you can do somethin bout that ......  ;)
Ok, I'm listening to "I want you (she's so heavy)" from Abbey Road.

I want you. I want you so bad. I want you. I want you so bad.
It's driving me mad.
I want you. I want you so bad. I want you. I want you so bad.
It's driving me mad.

Great lyrics! *horns*

-Paco

Nicky007

Quote from: PH on Fri, 2008-04-25, 14:02:08
It's driving me mad.

If you were going mad, you'd take it quite seriously, Paco  ;D

Maybe you should choose another song ?  Try e.g. Across The Universe, Let It Be, and Come Together  :)

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

PH


gelert

Gryphon.

Their Treason album is a must-have - but scarily expensive (on Ebay, c.£30+).

Beltane Fire sadly never did get their distrubition deal (Malc @ GFT turned then down), but their first (and only) LP Different Breed is quality.

Don't forget City Boy....
Internationally Affiliated Member of the Federated Union of Conundrums, Kudos, & Eccentric Dialogue, featuring the Scantily Clad Radii Of The Ubiquitous Meniscus - our motto "Time flies like an arrow - fruit flies like a banana"

PH

Gryphon? Ahh yes, I remember that one. I once quite enjoyed the album "Red Queen To Gryphon Three" a bit. Very dated music though. But still very enjoyable.
Thanks for reminding me, I'll look into this band again. Perhaps it's worth my money.

-Paco

Nicky007

#70
Quote from: gelert on Sun, 2008-04-27, 18:11:19
Don't forget City Boy....

Yeah, City Boy, one of my favorite groups in olden days - and they're from Birmingham, the greatest! well, maybe not, but it's my and Matt's birthplace, except that Matt's born in Boston, well .....

I'm wondering if one can call City Boy prog ...... Yes, I would say so. Whadaya guys think ?

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

Draco chimera

I can't really votte, because I don't know very well all these bands, but I really like Genesis. :D
Let your conscience decide !