:: The Shattered Room ::

Other Stuff => Metaphysical Stuff => Topic started by: SwissCow on Wed, 2005-01-26, 15:59:58

Title: Wide & precise
Post by: SwissCow on Wed, 2005-01-26, 15:59:58
What I like with Arena and their music, is that the lyrics are both "wide" and "precise" to both understand more or less the meaning behind the words, and still they let you understand the song with your own way of believing or disbelieving (in God, in an afterlife, or whatever else). And this is, I think, something quite special, and rare enough to mention it.

You can listen to one track or another, and still find many different interpretations of it, while it delivers the same kind of message. I have read some interpreations of The Visitor album (stating for example that the Visitor was God, that the songs were talking about apostasy & return to God, etc.). They all offer interesting points of view. At the same time, before I read them, I had my own understanding of those songs that were not - I think - inferior to these reviews; and this understanding was the fruit of my way to listen to them, through my belief's glass.

Am I the only one feeling this way ?

Bye !
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Wed, 2005-01-26, 18:01:37
Agreed.

I, for example, believe that the Butterfly Man must be the devil. He's being described as the 'catcher of souls' and having a human collection, but himself again being trapped in a sort of timeless situation that he can't escape from, kind of like a victim himself.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: SwissCow on Thu, 2005-01-27, 08:06:06
I see things the same way : the Butterfly Man is certainly a mention to the devil. It would be interesting to have another point of view : what else could he be ? In Moviedrome, I see the same reference to the devil : "We invited him in and offered no defense, and with every given soul, he reaches for his throne. He has the face of an angel, etc.", knowing that in the Bible, the devil is described as an "angel of light"...

Actually, most of Arena's songs have a clear reference to the Bible or mythology. And somehow, I think that most of the people like this spiritual side of that music, and still being able to interpret it in their own way.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: kmorse on Fri, 2005-01-28, 17:46:13
I can't disagree with the thoughts on "Butterfly Man." I also couldn't help but think of the serial killer in "Silence of the Lambs" or John Fowles' book, "The Collector."

What do you folks think "The Crack in the Ice" is? I've pondered that one a time or two.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Fri, 2005-01-28, 18:12:33
As I'm not a native English speaker, lyrics like 'Crack in the Ice' are way out of line of interpretation for me... Would be interesting to hear others' thoughts, though....
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Gollum on Fri, 2005-01-28, 19:25:27
I always thought of The Butterfly Man as a feelling rather than a "character", "person", or... well, anything with its own personality. In ither words, I see it as a "trap" inside people, in wich they may fall in certain situations. I don't know, some kind of metaphorical interpretation, a personification of a side of our own minds.

PS: I realiase now... everything I said could apply to the Devil too :P
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Constable Hogweed on Sun, 2005-01-30, 03:33:31
I have always seen "the Butterfly man" as the devil too. Before the fall, The devil as Lucifer was described as the most beautiful of all the angels. The beauty of the butterfly in appearance, with the twist of his personality ( Catcher of innocent souls etc ) as well as other clues have brought me to that conclusion.............But who knows? it could be about Jake the pegs lost sock on an island of evil marmalade jars...........Sorry about that, i shall go to bed now. :-[ ;D
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: SwissCow on Sun, 2005-01-30, 22:17:00
Gollum's point of view is also interesting. A feeling ? Why not !!!  8)

I also agree with Constable Hogweed about the parallel with Lucifer. Actually, it seems to me that in quite many Arena's songs, the devil is directly or inderictly mentioned. So is God, actually. Let's take a more recent song : "Opera Fanatica". Do you remember some ot the last word ?

You try to live without me by your side;
you try to live without me now but I
I will always be there,
Just a single breath away;
And I, I will always be there,
I will share your fate again.

Kind of making me thing of God again (some may think of the devil, maybe...).

About the Crack in the Ice, I read an interpretation that was stating that the whole album was talking about someone becoming a disbeliever, but kind of "meets" again God at the end. So logically, the Crack in the Ice could be the doubt period : "I defy you to stand, on the crack in the Ice, with the Power of you Hands, on the crack in the Ice". Kind of a metaphore of the doubts shaking the whole nice "block" of beliefs ? ;)

To be thought upon...

Bye !

PS: For those who haven't yet notice - and you must be but a few - my native tongue is not english either, so please, be patient with my mistakes.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: kmorse on Sun, 2005-01-30, 23:49:05
SwissCow,

Don't apologize. Your English is much better than my Swiss.

And that's a fair interpretation of "Crack in the Ice," in my view.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Mon, 2005-01-31, 07:52:34
But does someone stand on the ice with their hands?
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: kmorse on Mon, 2005-01-31, 16:52:52
"Does someone stand on their hands on the crack in the ice?"

I would define that as pretty risky behavior
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Mon, 2005-01-31, 18:38:49
"Does someone stand on their hands on the crack in the ice?"

I would define that as pretty risky behavior

Almost as risky as standing on the ice, slipping, and getting ice in the crack...  :o ;D
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Draddi on Sat, 2005-02-05, 06:09:24
I'd rather think of the Butterfly Man as the Death, not the Devil. The Grim Reaper, catching all the souls of the Dying, because in Death all Souls are innocent whilst him being trapped in his "job" without any chance of escape (Is it obvious that I have read Pratchett's Discworld too ´many times ?) So, same interpretation than Peter just a slightly different conclusion.

Almost as risky as standing on the ice, slipping, and getting ice in the crack... :o ;D
That would be then considered the first cool a****le, I have ever met, right ? ;D
Hope I got that right, gelert... ;)
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Sun, 2005-02-06, 02:44:59
Nice one Draddi - cool assh*le, hehehe...

...reminds me of that joke involving 370HSSV 0773H...
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Draddi on Sun, 2005-02-06, 11:03:11
Nice one Draddi - cool assh*le, hehehe...

...reminds me of that joke involving 370HSSV 0773H...
just when I was happy to get the crack joke right, you give me that one..... :D
....that went way over my head...please help me out here, gelert. I don't know that one.
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Sun, 2005-02-06, 11:14:54
Quote
After numerous rounds of: "We don't even know if Osama is still alive", Osama himself
decided to send George Bush a letter in his own handwriting to let him know he was still
in the game. Bush opened the letter and it appeared to contain a coded message:

370HSSV-0773H

Bush was baffled, so he e-mailed it to Colin Powell. Colin and his aides had no clue either
so they sent it to the FBI. No one could solve it so it went to the CIA, then to the NASA,
then to the Secret Service.
 
With no clue as to it's meaning, they eventually asked Britain's MI-6 for help.
MI-6 cabled the White House: Tell the President he is holding the letter upside down!
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Draddi on Mon, 2005-02-07, 02:09:55

Duh !!! Thanks Peter   ;D
ok, I should have gotten that one....but I got a pretty good excuse....it's fairly hard to turn the Monitor upside down  ;)
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Mon, 2005-02-07, 19:33:40
...it's fairly hard to turn the Monitor upside down...

Drink more beer...it'll turn upside-down, without you having to lift a finger...  8)
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Mon, 2005-02-07, 19:51:52
Well, gelert, that's actually a state in which you will never see ole' Draddi in.....
He had the guts to not even share a drink with me on his wedding ;)

Prolly because I played a trick on him.... *cough*
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Mon, 2005-02-07, 20:44:07
Well, gelert, that's actually a state in which you will never see ole' Draddi in.....
He had the guts to not even share a drink with me on his wedding ;)

Prolly because I played a trick on him.... *cough*

NO, NO, NO, PETER....you CAN'T leave it there without telling ALL of us.....

'fess-up...
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Mon, 2005-02-07, 20:56:02
Well, we have an annoying usus here in Germany to 'kidnap' the bride sometime during the party. What I did. Hell, was the boy mad at me....
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Mon, 2005-02-07, 21:07:39
In Sweden it is a bit of a custom for the groom to be kidnapped and whisked off somewhere for his stag night,  which usually lasts all day and all night rather than the typical British stag night where you all arrange it beforehand go out get drunk and hire a stripper.

The Swedes do it different.. The groom has no idea until he gets nabbed.. He might be dressed up in something crazy... and go do something funny...and then the fun starts!

This particular guy is a keen sailor and when he was kidnapped for his stag night they pasted a false "skippers-beard" on him and put him at the helm of a 60 foot yacht and let him be skipper for the day...

Much beer and fine food was consumed. But nothing... nasty happened to him at all...

In the evening when they got back on land and were getting cleaned up for the night club... they all had a sauna as is customary in Sweden....

Imagine the grooms horror when he walked into the sauna where his naked buddies were waiting for him and then to notice that best mate number one had no pubic hair ...

neither did friend two ...
nor three ...
or four...





Now go back to the mental image of "they pasted a false 'skippers-beard' on him"....!
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Mon, 2005-02-07, 21:32:08
Eeek, that's funny. Should've asked you earlier :)
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Appelmoes?? on Mon, 2005-02-07, 22:29:05
Yuch! ;D

Isn't that a story that should have been posted in the 'Hair'-topic?
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Mon, 2005-02-07, 22:50:03
....should have been posted in the 'Hair'-topic?

LOL...  :)
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Draddi on Tue, 2005-02-08, 06:05:13
Theeeeere we gooooo, couldn't resist couldn't you Peter ?  :D
It's true though, I was a little mad at you, but only for ten minutes  ;)
And if the stupid driver of the car would have been faster, we would have had some time to take a little drink and enjoy our time with the kidnapped bride but hell, 70 people were about to storm the buffet without me holding a speech.....and you know, how much I need to hold my speech (little egomaniac, that I am....)  :D
But gelert, what he didn't tell you was, that this was not the only thing he did to me.....
Actually it was similar to the custom in Sweden.
Him and two other friends of mine picked me up a few nights before my wedding, put me in a shirt with my pic on it, handcuffed me with pink plush Handcuffs (it had to be pink..... !!!) and released me only after I collected one hundred (!) female signatures including their phone numbers !!
I got actually 102, including 4 swedish girls (very friendly folks up there in the north), 2 Austrians and 2 Lesbians....I think I am the only living individual in our neighborhood that ever got the phone No's of two lesbians  ;D
So you see, there's a history there.....(Hell, that was fun !!!)

about the pubic hair though......is there any other way than being clean down there ???  ;D

ok, too much information, I agree.....

Peter, all is forgiven, actually I have to apologise for my reaction, was a bit too harsh !
I'll make it up to you, once you visit me here in China, ok ? We will have some duckfeet and toad fillet on that..... ;D

and one more thing, the not-drinking thing has another reason, I was drunk when I was four years old, threw up big time and since then, never touched alcohol again....Pawlow works also on kids, keep that in mind boys, might come in handy some day  ;)
by the way....how did we get here ??
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Tue, 2005-02-08, 19:36:20
by the way....how did we get here ??

And you SO nearly had me convinced that you don't drink....  ;D
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Peter on Tue, 2005-02-08, 21:01:31
This turns out to be a very interesting thread..... harhar .....  ;D
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: Deenfan on Mon, 2005-02-21, 01:52:17
Man, I was really getting into this highly intellectual discussion about "The butterfly man" and other lyrics, and all of a sudden it's about pasting pubic hair to a face... From SEVERAL men?! This is, indeed, a prog forum... ;D

May I kindly put us back on course? I was (before the pubic matter(ha!) turned up) thinking about how cool the almost "The far side"-ish concept of the butterfly man is. Men collect butterflies. Hence, a butterfly would collect men. The butterfly man can be anyone who draw people to them for the purpose of having as many as possible of them under his control. A leader of men could see his subjects as specimen, maybe. Maybe the butterfly man is butterfly men through all ages? I'm just ramblin' on... :-\
Title: Re: Wide & precise
Post by: gelert on Tue, 2005-02-22, 20:35:56
Men collect butterflies. Hence, a butterfly would collect men.

Ah, the old "A dog has a tail - a cat has a tail...therefore a cat is a dog" argument....

er, or something...

Hat, cloak, keyboards, gone....