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Other Stuff => Metaphysical Stuff => Topic started by: funkster on Tue, 2009-11-24, 12:18:20

Title: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Tue, 2009-11-24, 12:18:20
Does God exist
Is religion good , bad or indifferent
Where does your faith come from
Have you ever lost your faith

I would be most interested to see your views , opinions and ideas
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Tue, 2009-11-24, 12:22:42
I think I'v posted enuff on these matters in the Room. If I posted more, I'd run the risk of being considered a talkin' head  ;D

Let's hear your take this time, Funkster. Honestly, I'm interested  ;)

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Peter on Wed, 2009-11-25, 11:14:23
Does God exist

Sure. Yes, he does exist.

Quote
Is religion good , bad or indifferent

Religion is good, church is evil - most of the time.

Quote
Where does your faith come from

From my heart.

Quote
Have you ever lost your faith

No, not lost, but over the years I tend to forget it, sometimes, somehow... being lost in everyday chores and struggles...
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2009-11-25, 11:37:43
Religion is good, church is evil - most of the time.

I'd just like to comment on this one:

Right, Cap, religions have created a lot of divisions leading to animosity and wars.

However, the Danish Lutheran Church today is very open and tolerant, and it very much reflects what its users put into it. I'v had periods when I needed the churches and priests a lot, and other periods when I didnt and consequently stayed away. If there's an interesting lecture, concert or something else in one of the churches, I feel free to join in, and then leave when I feel like it.

Funkster, if you want a more extensive and/or specific discussion on these matters, you should share some of your stuff with us here. That's what mature people do  ;)

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Wed, 2009-11-25, 11:48:29
I know Nicky , i know

it is not just a quick reply for me as i have struggled for 18 months with my faith until a year ago when i walked away from it.

recently i have started to feel that i am missing something  and am considering returning to church this week for the first time in a year. It is not an easy decision and i am still not sure what the right decision is  :-\  Time will tell

Watch this space  ;)
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2009-11-25, 12:00:48
 :) Funkster.

OK, I'l just say to that:  Sensitive/ble people need Faith, and intelligent people have to work things out for themselves. So if you are that combination, which I expect Roomies to be, ya gotta hold onto yer faith, and work it out for yourself by trying out everything that the World offers: Go to various churches, ask questions and listen to all priests and anyone else who seems to have something useful/promising (even us dumbassed Roomies), check up what intelligent progbands have to offer (e.g. SyX, DT, Priest, Queensr├┐che), very importantly: talk with your wife, Mum, Dad, sis/bro, and read the Christian Bible and commentaries extensively. There's of course a lot more than this, but mainly: Go at it !

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Iggy on Wed, 2009-11-25, 21:47:22
This is a difficult one.

I grew up in a home with church going parents was a choir boy for several years and actually worked in Canterbury Cathedral for a few years. I have to say i met all sorts from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Thu, 2009-11-26, 12:44:41
... from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 ;D

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Thu, 2009-11-26, 12:59:06
;D

Nicky.

Also to be found in all walks of life  ;)

Is it wrong to get more out of a book by Rob Bell and an album by Neal Morse than the bible ?  They just make more sense to me.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Draco chimera on Sun, 2009-12-06, 21:22:14
Does God Exist?
This is the question I think we've all thought about at least one moment in our life.
My opinion is no. Of course, I respect believers of all religions, but I do not believe that there is/are any God/Gods.
I think every one is free of his choices, and lives in a world where a huge amount of things in interaction makes his "future".
To me, destiny and fate do not exist, neither of an upper power guiding our existence.
But I respect believers.

Is religion good?
Well, the problem is, there are many answers to this question.
On the on hand, we hear abour religion wars, extremism and other stuff - in most of the existing religions - even though I never read in the Bible or in the religious books "kill the non-believers" or "make war to make the others understand that yor god is much better than the others'."
On the other hand, I think having a personnal or common religion can sometimes help going through difficult times.
To make a point, religion isn't good or bad : everythig depends on the way you practice it.
This is my point of view.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Fri, 2009-12-18, 12:51:48
I am off to a carol service on sunday night which will be my first trip to church in over 12 months.

I feel a bit of a fake with it being Christmas and all but it feels like the right thing to do and i am sure that the boys will love it.

As for future attendance , well we shall see.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Fri, 2010-01-15, 16:23:18
Well i have been to church 3/4 times in the last few weeks , inc Christmas day , and it has really resonated with both myself and my wife.

We are starting the Christianity explored course in 2 weeks - http://www.christianityexplored.org/

and are both looking forward to it.


After struggling with my faith for a while it became apparent to me that i was scared of fully immersing myelf in it and was afraid of what might happen. And so i ran away and tried to hide.

But it was always at the back of mind and recently it moved to the front  :)

Well , enough from me for the moment and i am sure there will be more to follow
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Teunis on Fri, 2010-01-15, 20:10:40
Thanks for sharing Funkster. Good to read you've found something you and your wife are feeling confident with.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Mon, 2010-01-18, 08:57:59
Yes, thanx for sharing, Funkster  :)

Sounds good.

Just play it easy, don't press things.

Profound people need God (at least once they'r past their revolt against authorities) but don't want stuff pressed upon'm.

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Wed, 2010-08-11, 18:19:44
Alright then. Here goes.

Does God exist
Yes. I'm sure that He exists.

Is religion good , bad or indifferent
That depends.

As a Christian, I think that christianity is the only true religion. And I'm convinced that this religion is good, not only for me or for christians only, but for everyone. Read the Ten Commandments and you'll know that it will be constructive to the human race.

But I am aware that there are christians who pretend to be good, but are very misguiding. As a protestant I more than once get asked about issues that are present in the Catholic church. Things like pedophilia or the crusades are something that makes christianity look like an ape.

I'd like people to think for themselves. My advice for everybody is: pray for guidance. Read the bible. Be critical to the "leaders" of the church.

Where does your faith come from
Interesting question.
I'm going to answer this question like this:
My faith comes from God. As a human being I think that we are incapable of getting closer to God. He has to come closer to us. That's another thing that distantiates Christianity from other beliefs.
We are unable to believe in God. Only when He confronts you with it (and He does to everyone!) you have the choice to either delve deeper into 'faith' or move away from it.

Have you ever lost your faith
I think you can't lose your faith. I used to think that I lost my faith and returned to it again. But now I think that my faith, wasn't really faith. In other words, when you truly believe, you will recognise that you haven't believed all along. From that moment on, you grow into faith.

I hope this is clear. I still find it difficult to express myself in English when discussing these matters.


--Paco--
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Mon, 2010-08-23, 10:41:27
Thanks for sharing Paco and there is nothing wrong with your English.

I have done a lot of praying of the last few months and started attending an evening service which seems to particularly resonate with me.

My relationship with God is the strongest it has been and i am much happier for it.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Mon, 2010-08-23, 11:31:14
 8)  Funkster.

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Fri, 2011-01-14, 14:06:50
I am starting an Alpha course next week. Has anyone been on one ?
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Fri, 2011-01-14, 15:39:22
Nope.

That must be my shortest post in the Room.

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Sun, 2011-03-13, 20:49:14
How's your Alpha course going Funkster?
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Thu, 2011-03-17, 07:04:52
I went to one Paco and have not been again.

The more i think about the concept of God and religion the more i struggle to believe. The concept of a "being" creating the universe is just too far beyond my understanding and i have seen too much intolerance & weird rules to trust religion.

So i have made the decision to walk away from it and try to live my life the best i can which is all anyone can do.

Thanks for asking.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Thu, 2011-03-17, 11:18:04
I went to one Paco and have not been again.

The more i think about the concept of God and religion the more i struggle to believe. The concept of a "being" creating the universe is just too far beyond my understanding and i have seen too much intolerance & weird rules to trust religion.

I see. I'm sorry to hear that, and I understand.

You know what, there's only one difference that sets church people apart from people who don't go to church: they go to church.
Except for that fact, there is no difference AT ALL. People, in general, disappoint. I think it's because of the fact that we all, at the root, want to do only things that make us feel good. And sometimes (many times) we fail other people in the process. So don't expect supermen and superwomen in church. Christians are nothing better than non-believers. There's only one Man who doesn't disappoint, and that's because He is God Himself. In church, the focus should be on Jesus more than anyone. And if that's the case, people will change, because they want to look like Him.

Which weird rules put you off?
And what did you hope to expect from a church?

So i have made the decision to walk away from it and try to live my life the best i can which is all anyone can do.

You know, my mother doesn't go to church anymore for the same reasons you stated. There's a lot we christians need to learn.


About the concept of a "being" creating the universe and that it's too far beyond your understanding:
You're right. How should we ever understand? Many people (even in the Bible) have/had this problem. I can only come to the conclusion that we are but small humans. Compared to God, we know nothing (Job 38).

It's difficult indeed, and you're absolutely not the only one who struggles (there are many examples in the Bible). I think I said it here before: don't take everything the priests say for granted. They do make mistakes. We're all human. Read the Bible yourself, and pray to God.

It's better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118: 8 )
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Draco chimera on Wed, 2011-04-06, 15:45:20
I think it's time for me to express another opinion that the one I posted earlier.
I wrote that I was no believer. I guess I was wrong, somehow. I do not believe in God as he is described by the Bible, or in any god described by any religion I know. But how can we explain the fact that we are here, talking to each other? How can we explain all the weird stuff that, packed together, forms the universe? We're in lack of answers. We've always been and will always be. The only logical response would then be to say "Well, okay, considering I didn't find any explanation to my existence, I guess something totally out of my understanding must have created me." Even if we can't reach it, it's a start to consider it exists.
So, I'm no religious man. I'm just saying, there is a possibility that something, somewhat or whatever created us, whether it is on purpose or not. And as "there must be something more/this is not all that we are" is consiedered as the basic article of faith, I guess I'm a believer of some kind.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: bellanova on Thu, 2011-04-07, 18:22:16
This is far too deep for me but i accept we all have our own beliefs. I delved into religion over the last couple of years. i started going to Catholic Mass and reading about Catholicism in general despite my family being non practisng Cof E. I did get something out of it but it didnt last. I think it comes down to the problem of religion versus science. There have been alot of programmes on tv recently about the solar system and universe and it just makes more sense than believing there is a god that created everything. God seems to be just an Earth thing that us humans believe in. The universe is huge and physicists seem to explain why we are here much better than anything in the bible so i have to say im now agnostic. But then what was there before the Universe and how did it get there and then if there is a God who made him? I thought about doing the alpha course but i really dont think it would help as i am far too cynical. Fascinating subject though.. I really admire believers but i just cant. :(

Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Wed, 2011-10-12, 16:41:10
I know exactly what you mean Bellanova.

Not been to church for probably 6 months plus and not regularly for 12 months and i do not feel that
i am missing out whatsover.

 
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2011-10-12, 17:45:17
I do not feel that i am missing out whatsover.

Except that God is missing you guys  ;)

I see faith and logic/science as two completely different domains. We can never rationalise our way to faith. It is a jump into the unknown, as Kierkegaard put it.

The thing is that we need God, as a personal being above the sum of human intelligences. Without such a Being, life would be meaningless, in an eternal sense, and that becomes unacceptable, once one pursues the thought. When one then takes the jump, faith starts growing.

That would be my understanding of faith - the short version, of course  :)

Nicky.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Wed, 2011-10-12, 19:33:55
I wholeheartily agree with Nicky here.

A very pointed remark of Nicky is indeed: God is missing you.

Another thing. And now I'm going to be bitchy, but alright. I hope you'll forgive me. ;)

This is far too deep for me but i accept we all have our own beliefs.

This could in a way be called religious indifference. "We all have our own beliefs, in the end all that matters is that you choose something that you seem fit for yourself."

This seems fair, and when you say it, it looks as if you're open to religion, but in fact it means you define the rules yourself and you're actually closing yourself off for it.

I did get something out of it but it didnt last.

Why do we always want to get something out of it? As long as you want something out of it, it won't last, even when you do get something out of it. Look at it as marriage. When you are married, you want to give yourself up for your husband/wife, you want to know each other, you love each other unconditionally. When you start investing in this 'marriage' (by delving deeper into it, 'getting to know Him' by reading the Bible for example), then you'll get something out of it, although it won't be your goal to get something out of it.

What is that 'something' anyway? ;)
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Draco chimera on Thu, 2011-10-13, 14:42:35
Except that God is missing you guys  ;)

The thing is that we need God, as a personal being above the sum of human intelligences. Without such a Being, life would be meaningless, in an eternal sense, and that becomes unacceptable, once one pursues the thought. When one then takes the jump, faith starts growing.

That would be my understanding of faith - the short version, of course  :)

Nicky.
Many people live without believing, and do not feel any kind of "emptiness". I had a conversation with some friends about it lately, and one of them told me : "I do not know if I believe in God, or have religious beliefs. The fact is, we're here, we don't fully understand why, nor do we know for how long; there are many things to do, to see here, it is like a trip. So, let's just make it as pleasant as possible for us and the others." It does not mean this person doesn't ask themselves metaphysical questions, it just means they can live without religion. I guess it depends on the person - I understand many people need to believe to keep on going ahead.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Thu, 2011-10-13, 18:39:35
Many people live without believing, and do not feel any kind of "emptiness".

Sometimes there's no feeling of emptiness because all 'life-space' is filled with all kinds of things. When you take that away, you will feel the emptiness. I know, this seems obvious (and it is, obviously :P ).

Let me try to explain. People in general don't like to be alone. We can endure being alone for a couple of minutes, or a few hours, perhaps even a day, but after that we really feel the need to be with friends, family, or pets even. When you have all time filled with all kinds of things (music, television, work, hobby's) you are much more likely to endure being alone for days, or even weeks.

Some religious people are 'into' fasting. Which is for the same reason. When we are not tied to all kinds of things (food as the obvious example, but also music, or movies, or even society (hermits)) we are more likely to open up for spirituality.

I had a conversation with some friends about it lately, and one of them told me : "I do not know if I believe in God, or have religious beliefs. The fact is, we're here, we don't fully understand why, nor do we know for how long; there are many things to do, to see here, it is like a trip. So, let's just make it as pleasant as possible for us and the others."

Carpe Diem. Seize the day. Which in itself is not bad. When I quote the Bible:

"Yes, if a man lives many years, let him rejoice in them all." Ecclesiastes 11:8a

In other words: make the most of it. Enjoy it. Carpe Diem.

But right after that:

"But let him remember the days of darkness, for they shall be many.
All that comes is vanity." Ecclesiastes 11:8b

The darkness comes. In the end, we will all die. Don't forget. Memento Mori.

It does not mean this person doesn't ask themselves metaphysical questions, it just means they can live without religion. I guess it depends on the person - I understand many people need to believe to keep on going ahead.

Yes, I can understand this vision. But this means that christians or muslims or jews are actually weak. They can't keep on, they need belief to keep going. Atheist are strong, they don't need a god or belief.

I'm almost sure you won't agree, but I think we are ALL weak and need belief, or actually God, to make it till the end (or beyond the end: eternity). The Atheists, the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. We are all weak. But only the Christians, Muslims and Jews know they are weak. An Atheist doesn't like to be weak. ;)
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Draco chimera on Thu, 2011-10-13, 19:50:39
Sometimes there's no feeling of emptiness because all 'life-space' is filled with all kinds of things. When you take that away, you will feel the emptiness. I know, this seems obvious (and it is, obviously :P ).

Let me try to explain. People in general don't like to be alone. We can endure being alone for a couple of minutes, or a few hours, perhaps even a day, but after that we really feel the need to be with friends, family, or pets even. When you have all time filled with all kinds of things (music, television, work, hobby's) you are much more likely to endure being alone for days, or even weeks.

Some religious people are 'into' fasting. Which is for the same reason. When we are not tied to all kinds of things (food as the obvious example, but also music, or movies, or even society (hermits)) we are more likely to open up for spirituality.

Carpe Diem. Seize the day. Which in itself is not bad. When I quote the Bible:

"Yes, if a man lives many years, let him rejoice in them all." Ecclesiastes 11:8a

In other words: make the most of it. Enjoy it. Carpe Diem.

But right after that:

"But let him remember the days of darkness, for they shall be many.
All that comes is vanity." Ecclesiastes 11:8b

The darkness comes. In the end, we will all die. Don't forget. Memento Mori.

Yes, I can understand this vision. But this means that christians or muslims or jews are actually weak. They can't keep on, they need belief to keep going. Atheist are strong, they don't need a god or belief.

I'm almost sure you won't agree, but I think we are ALL weak and need belief, or actually God, to make it till the end (or beyond the end: eternity). The Atheists, the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. We are all weak. But only the Christians, Muslims and Jews know they are weak. An Atheist doesn't like to be weak. ;)
You are right when you say you are all weak, but I guess no one likes to be weak. Atheists are just like Jews, Christians, or any kind of believers; the compensate their weaknesses. The only difference is, they do not compensate with religious beliefs.

Yes, we all die in the end, but I'm having difficulties seeing your point here... :-\ silly me.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: Peter on Thu, 2011-10-20, 20:51:42
One of the preachers in the church I grew up with once told us this allegory, which I'm trying to tell you as good as I can:

One day Darwin entered Newton's office. Newton was somewhere in the back, busy writing up numbers and studying books. Darwin noticed a model of the solar system standing near the door, a mechanical wooden and metallic building, with a lot of wheels and gears and springs. The device was clicking and buzzing as it was spinning around, and Darwin was as puzzled as fascinated by it, as he had never before seen anything the like.

He stood before it and called out to Newton "Isaac, tell me who made this thing, I want one for myself". Newton, still very busy, mumbled a "Errr, nobody, now leave me alone" into his beard. Darwin watched in amazement for another minute until he regained himself and asked again "Please, now tell me who made it". Newton, in the midst of a very complicated series of calculations, answered, now a little angry "Away with you, nobody made it". Darwin overheard the anger in Newton's voice and inquired again: "Stop making fun of me, something as wonderful and complicated as this can't be made by <nobody>, someone must have worked it out and put it together, please tell me now!"

Newton, startled, turned around, looked at Darwin and replied "So you run around telling people that something as complex as the universe, the world, mankind and all nature has come out of nothing but coincidence and has no maker, but you wouldn't believe that the same goes for this rather simple device here ?"
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Tue, 2011-11-08, 21:18:36
This is an amazing story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9saTgN_sIk&feature=share
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: PH on Tue, 2011-11-08, 22:11:32
Nice, Funkster. :)
Why do you show it to us?

It's indeed an amazing story and it shows how things CAN happen. Not how things SHOULD happen.
I'm saying this, because people might get the idea that people should get a very special feeling or experience when they become a christian.
God has many ways, and not everyone is the same. I always give the example of the apostle Paul and Timothy.

Paul, who was formerly known as Saul, was a persecutor of christians. On his way to Damascus he was overwhelmed by this amazing light and a voice spoke to him: "Saul, Saul! Why do you persecute me?". From then on he became a christian. This was a sudden conversion.

For Timothy, things were different. Timothy's mother probably already was a christian. She taught him everything about God, so Timothy's conversion (if you can even call it that) was gradually. Nothing really exciting about it.
Title: Re: God and religion
Post by: funkster on Wed, 2011-11-09, 10:07:36
I posted it Paxi because i started this thread and have struggled with faith a huge amount over the last
2 years. I saw the video on Facebook from a Christian friend of mind and thought it was just , i don't
know - amazing really how this person's life had been changed so dramatically.

Those changes have never happened in my life and maybe i was expecting that when as you say it does
not happen to everyone the same.

Lots for my to mull over i tell you