I just looked through a list of the artists performing at Live Earth (at Wikipedia), and I was surprised to see that the only prog artists are Muse, Damien Rice, Roger Waters, and Chris Cornell. Why are big prog names like Dream Theater and Symphony X not performing?
I will try to see the four mentioned acts on TV. Does anybody have further good tips?
Are any of you attending?
Nicky.
The others (DT, SX etc.) may be well known in the little prog world, but not in general.
And is Muse prog?
Quote from: Appelmoes?? on Fri, 2007-07-06, 12:32:06The others (DT, SX etc.) may be well known in the little prog world, but not in general.
And is Muse prog?
No, Muse is alternative Rock.
VERY alternative. Very good too. ;)
Prog is alternative, but alternative is no prog.
Quote from: Appelmoes?? on Fri, 2007-07-06, 12:32:06
The others (DT, SX etc.) may be well known in the little prog world, but not in general.
I think that DT are better known than, say, Kasabian and Terra Naomi, who are playing at Wembley Live Earth.
> And is Muse prog?
Again, Wikipedia, which with very few exceptions only expresses well researched material, characterises Muse as follows: "Their sound is a blend of alternative rock, progressive rock, classical music, electronica and heavy metal." Further, I would argue that if a group blends alternative and heavy, it's a prog group.
Nicky.
The general public are just not interested in prog. In fact the people that go to these events probably dont even know what prog is. i reckon that we should jump in the bandwagon and have a Live Prog! They probably wouldnt get the audience that the likes of Lily Allen (rubbish) and Madonna(well past it) get! Its criminal but true!
I just hope that i get to see Roger Waters otherwise i'll be switching off. And if Wimbledon is not rained off again I'll be watching that. Too many of these live things anyway. We had Live Diana last weekend which wrecked the tv schedules! Overkill!!!!!
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2007-07-06, 14:35:11I would argue that if a group blends alternative and heavy, it's a prog group.
I absolutely don't agree with that.
Prog doesn't have to be heavy.
There's lots of prog that's not heavy and sometimes it even seems as if most people only enjoy heavy music.
Alternative and heavy...
That sounds like just heavy metal.
Metal isn't pop or rock, therefore it's alternative.
Muse isn't pop, it's rock. Rock with a blend of electronica and classic, so it's alternative.
But there are no odd time signatures, there are no long compositions, the lyrics are often quite shallow.
Ok, there is emotion, lot's of. But it's often only angry emotion (which is very uncommon in the popworld) therefore they are alternative.
Muse is awesome!
But Muse is not prog.
But of course I know where you're coming from. ;)
Quote from: PH on Fri, 2007-07-06, 17:05:55
I absolutely don't agree with that.
How much of your Dutch special did you smoke today, PH?
I said that if you blend alternative and heavy, you get prog, but I didn't say that prog was only this. When you come to Copenhagen one day, I'll give you a lesson in logic. Meanwhile ....
We all agree that IQ are prog, and they shouldn't be classified as heavy.
I would still maintain that Muse are prog, and Wikipedia agrees with me, or is it the other way around, well, anyhow.
I agree with you, PH, that Matthew's lyrics are not as sophisticated as e.g. Clive's or John P's, but consider that Matthew's a generation younger than the others. That aside, in their simplicity, they can often be to the point. Take e.g. Invincible, one of my faves: "Follow through, make your dreams come true, don't give up the fight, you will be alright, because there's no one like you in the universe. Don't be afraid of what your mind conceives, you should make a stand, stand up for what you believe. And tonight we can truly say together, we're invincible."
> But of course I know where you're coming from. ;)
Originally from God, and more recently from my mother's womb, or what do you mean, PH? Is it because you find me aMUSEing? ;)
Bellanova, I agree with you that Madonna once did some interesting things, but what she does nowadays is routine. She's more popular than ever in Denmark, and that says something about the music situation in Denmark.
I think that there are several exciting artists, not just Roger Waters, playing at Live Earth. Give Chris Cornell a try.
Nicky.
Good thing we know that everything on wiki is true and shouldn't be doubted :D
I don't doubt that what you say is very true, Appelmoes.
But seriously, Wikipedia is really a fantastic resource, and veracious at that.
Nicky.
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2007-07-06, 18:30:21How much of your Dutch special did you smoke today, PH?
:D I'm perfectly aware of what I'm saying! ;)
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2007-07-06, 18:30:21I said that if you blend alternative and heavy, you get prog
That's what I'm trying to explain you. If you blend alternative and heavy, you might sometimes get prog, but it's not always the case.
EVERY heavy/black/doom/death metal band IS
alternative and absolutely
heavy. But it's certainly not prog!
Alternative rock often comes more close to punk rock than progressive rock. Nirvana for instance, is called Alternative Rock. It's alternative, it's heavy. You call this prog?
Some people call Gothic Rock (like Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, Nightwish) Prog, but it's just alternative. Alternative AND heavy. Is it prog, Nicky?
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2007-07-06, 18:30:21Originally from God, and more recently from my mother's womb, or what do you mean, PH? Is it because you find me aMUSEing? ;)
LOL :D I meant that I know what you mean, 'cause Muse has sometimes a few progressive influences, but most of the time it's just alternative rock.
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2007-07-06, 19:09:12
I don't doubt that what you say is very true, Appelmoes.
But seriously, Wikipedia is really a fantastic resource, and veracious at that.
Nicky.
And not to be trusted since everybody can put "info" on there. I only believe something on wiki, if I can back up the info somewhere else. Preferably on official sites.
Quote from: Appelmoes?? on Fri, 2007-07-06, 20:09:47And not to be trusted since everybody can put "info" on there. I only believe something on wiki, if I can back up the info somewhere else. Preferably on official sites.
Same here!
But still I LOVE Wikipedia, since it's so accessable, very easy to use. And links to anything.
When you're looking something up on mushrooms, you find a link to something else, which links to something else, which links you to something else, and eventually you come on a wiki page about flamenco.
You can spend a whole day on Wikipedia without getting bored.
Ahem... Same goes with this topic by the way... We started on Live Earth and now we're talking Wikipedia...
On topic again?
Maybe we should split this topic in three: Live Earth, The definition of prog and Wikipedia.
Quote from: Appelmoes?? on Fri, 2007-07-06, 20:09:47
And not to be trusted since everybody can put "info" on there. I only believe something on wiki, if I can back up the info somewhere else. Preferably on official sites.
I've heard that opinion before, and it's always marketed by people who speculate about Wikipedia rather than using it. By the way, I'm talking about the English-language Wiki. I don't care about the others. I've read literally thousands of articles on Wiki, and I've found about three minor errors. That's about the same as when I earlier pored through Collier's excellent encyclopedia (in book form).
Appelmoes, only God is perfect, not even Arena, so we always have to be critical about all our perceptions.
So, to close off with a "topical" statement: Happy Live Earth Day, Roomies.
Nicky.
Quote from: PH on Fri, 2007-07-06, 20:06:01
If you blend alternative and heavy, you might sometimes get prog, but it's not always the case.
EVERY heavy/black/doom/death metal band IS alternative and absolutely heavy. But it's certainly not prog!
Alternative rock often comes more close to punk rock than progressive rock. Nirvana for instance, is called Alternative Rock. It's alternative, it's heavy. You call this prog?
Some people call Gothic Rock (like Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, Nightwish) Prog, but it's just alternative. Alternative AND heavy. Is it prog, Nicky?
Yeah, here we really have to exert ourselves to the utmost to try to define and characterise prog.
I would propose that we start a new topic "What is prog?". I've started so many, maybe someone else would like to do it this time, I don't want people to think I'm an egomaniac.
I understand a prog group as a rock group that's continuously exploring new moods and expressions, being inspired by all genres of music, religious, philosophic, poetic, and cultural material.
So by that definition, yes, Nirvana is definitely a prog group, while Lacuna Coil is hardly prog, as they stay very much within the traditional limits of goth, and don't seem to be exerting themselves much.
Nicky.
Quote from: Nicky007 on Sat, 2007-07-07, 10:55:25while Lacuna Coil is hardly prog, as they stay very much within the traditional limits of goth, and don't seem to be exerting themselves much.
But Goth is alternative. And they're heavy too. ;)
Quote from: PH on Sat, 2007-07-07, 20:07:00
But Goth is alternative. And they're heavy too. ;)
You got a point there, PH. Several of the best known goth groups today, like The Gathering and Lacuna Coil, are not prog. The question is how alternative they are, whether they're not rather mainstream.
On the other hand, there's a lot of goth in prog, take e.g. Opeth, Katatonia and Anathema.
In my mind, what makes alternative prog is that it rocks, that it's visceral and not just intellectual. Let's keep in mind that prog is an abbreviation of progressive rock.
Nicky.
It's so nice to see you have a clearly different view of genres than I have Nicky ;)
"Schubladen-Denken"* is what we call it, and it doesn't help anyone, actually. I'm an ARENA-fan, I learned about many interesting bands staying on the "prog" scene. But I'm most definitely NOT a Prog fan. Most of the music in that "Schublade" just bores me.
* word-by-word translation to English: "drawer thinking", means: to feel the need to put every type of music you stumble across into a drawer.
Quote from: Appelmoes?? on Sun, 2007-07-08, 19:20:37
It's so nice to see you have a clearly different view of genres than I have Nicky ;)
Appelmoes, we know that you like playing hide and seek. Maybe now you could reveal a bit of your secret.
Peter, I personally find it genuinely exciting being a prog-spotter, i.e. spotting the groups that are at the cutting edge of rock. And I also truly enjoy listening to the classic masterpieces like Abbey Road. Some of us naturally cover that span.
Nicky.
Quote from: Peter on Sun, 2007-07-08, 21:54:25
* word-by-word translation to English: "drawer thinking", means: to feel the need to put every type of music you stumble across into a drawer.
I only have 3 drawers, they are labeled, LIKE, DON'T LIKE and NOT MADE UP MY MIND YET.
Quote from: Nicky007 on Mon, 2007-07-09, 01:28:45
Appelmoes, we know that you like playing hide and seek. Maybe now you could reveal a bit of your secret.
As a supermoose (see the ayreon-forum) I will not reveal my scret identity ;)
Appelmoes, it wasn't your identity I was asking for (I don't mind calling you Appelmoes), but if you write that you disagree with my description of genres, you owe it to us to present your version. That's just simple civility. :)
Nicky.
Back on topic: Funny. For a festival which was meant to make humanity aware of the danger of global warming it sure did cost a great amount of power. You know, current.
Well, ehm... :-\ you know: Electricity.
..
Never mind. ;D
Irony is bliss. :D
Didn't watch it by the way. ;)
Quote from: maddox on Tue, 2007-07-10, 16:34:22Didn't watch it by the way. ;)
I was only interested in the band Muse, but by zapping I only saw bits of Take That, Elton John, Metallica and The Pussycat Dolls ;D
Quote from: Teunis on Tue, 2007-07-10, 19:23:28
I was only interested in the band Muse, but by zapping I only saw bits of Take That, Elton John, Metallica and The Pussycat Dolls ;D
Oh yeah, i saw a tiny bit of Metallica just a few days later. Man, they were awefull. Am i glad i missed those relics. ;D
Quote from: Nicky007 on Mon, 2007-07-09, 22:01:50
you owe it to us to present your version. That's just simple civility. :)
And end up in another pointless discussion about which band is in what genre? No thank you ;) Besides that being waaay offtopic, I don't really feel the need for it either. No offence ofcourse, it's just my experience that noticing someone has a different opinion in such matters is better than discussing it, since it's all a matter perception and it won't do any good. It does, however, make me glad that we are all different in this tiny world, and that is ofcourse what makes live interesting :)
But I do hope this explains enough ;)
Appelmoes, the great thing about having different experiences and opinions is that we can learn from each other and thereby enrich our lives. That naturally requires that we are willing to share our experiences and opinions and respect the other's such.
For me, a chat forum like the Room is an excellent opportunity to test my thoughts and get some feedback on them.
Nicky.
You can see the whole concert at http://entimg.msn.com/i/ExperienceData/p1-7/us/x.htm?sh=LiveEarth&ep=le_london
For me, the greatest joy was seeing Roger Waters. He's in amazingly good shape, and his usual simple, great self. I realised once again how epochal Floyd's music is.
An amusing feature was that they had two guitarists in unison playing Dave's wonderful solo in Money. I guess the message was that it takes two top guitarists to replace Dave.
There were also fine performances by Chris Cornell, Police, Bon Jovi, and to my surprise, Kelly Clarkson, who's an amazingly good composer and singer.
Nicky.