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Other Stuff => Your Listening Profiles => Topic started by: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06

Title: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06
I have and have liked too much music to list it all.  A lot of what I have is on vinyl and boxed up since I haven't had a working turntable in a long time.  There are some things I didn't even remember I had (like Van Der Graaf Generator) until I started poking around on some review sites.  Anyway, here is some of what I like, but it's nowhere close to everything.  Oh yeah, besides what I list below, I like Arena too. ;)

My favorite bands/performers ever:  (some of my favorites of their albums in parens)

Genesis (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound) – Still loved em with Phil until he caught the pop bug, but the Peter era is my favorite.
Peter Gabriel (3rd and 4th albums flawless IMO) - included in Genesis, but his first 4 solos are so good and so different from Genesis that he needs his own mention here
R.E.M. (Murmur, Reckoning, Fables of the Reconstruction, Automatic for the People)
Sugar/Bob Mould (every last scrap of it – maybe Copper Blue if I were to pick one album)

More music I like a whole lot (again no particular order and not a complete list of their good albums):

IQ (Tales from the Lush Attic, The Wake) - probably belong on the list above, but I won't move them there until I complete my collection
Neil Young (Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, Mirror Ball)
Jethro Tull (Thick as a Brick, Songs from the Wood, Aqualung, Minstrel in the Gallery, Bursting Out - my favorite live album by anyone)
Pearl Jam (Ten, vs.)
Talking Heads (More Songs About Building and Food, Remain in Light)
Weezer ("the blue album," "the green album")
The Replacements (Tim)
Kansas (Leftoverture, Point of Know Return) - my first favorite band once I started buying my own music, don't listen to them so much anymore, but they still deserve mention
Soul Asylum (Hang Time, Grave Dancers Union)
Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here, The Wall)
The Who (Quadrophenia, Who's Next)
The Rolling Stones (Some Girls, Exile on Main St.)
Led Zeppelin (Houses of the Holy, 4th album – really could pick any of them)
Belly (King)
Buffalo Tom (Big Red Letter Day)
Pixies (Doolittle)
Hole (Live Through This, Celebrity Skin)
Nirvana (Nevermind, In Utero)
Lacuna Coil (don't own any of their albums yet but will probably have them all pretty soon)
Cowboy Junkies (Black Eyed Man)
Muddy Waters (Hard Again, but really anything he did)
The Afghan Whigs (Gentlemen)
Gentle Giant (Freehand, In a Glass House)
Marillion (Script for a Jester's Tear, Fugazi)
Yes (Close to the Edge, Going for the One)
Supertramp (Crime of the Century) – perhaps the worst name for a band ever, maybe it was a joke?
Hot Tuna (First Pull Up, Then Pull Down; Burgers)
Soundgarden (Superunknown)
Alice in Chains (Dirt)
Frank Zappa (Apostrophe)
Grateful Dead (Working Man's Dead, American Beauty)
The Band (The Last Waltz)
UK (UK)
Roxy Music (Siren, Avalon)
801 (801 Live)
Twelfth Night (Live and Let Live)

Lately I'm also liking the "symphonic black" bands although I haven't bought any albums yet.  I particularly like the ones with angelic female vocals.  Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt. :P

I'll probably add more to the list later as I think of it, but the above should be enough to start talking about.

-Manatee
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: PH on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:50:47
Impressive list!

I'm going to sleep right now, but tomorrow I'll make a reply to this, because I have a few questions for you. ;)

-Paco
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 11:19:40
Thanks, Manatee, for this very detailed list. It does give a very clear picture of your musical tastes.

You did add the disclaimer that you hadnt listed all your fave albums, but still it struck me that Dark Side Of The Moon, Zep 1-3, and Abbey Road were missing. These are in my mind masterpieces.

I can see that you havent really entered progmetal space yet. Dream Theater is an absolute MUST - yeah, everything they do is filled with magic, and you even live next door to them - and else for starters there's the wonderful melodic, but also harddriving, Ten; Circus Maximus, who are close to DT; Kamelot, who are more heavy and earthy, at least lately; Tool, who take off from Pink Floyd, but go into all sorts of terra incognito; just to name some of the best.

But of course we roomies are very individualised in our tastes - and that's great - so you'l get an entirely different serving from e.g. Paco.

Iac welcome to the world of prog, Manatee !  You neednt be bored one second  :D

Great to see another "oldie" (trying to rejuvenate myself with eight years)  ;D

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Bupie on Wed, 2008-02-13, 14:25:19
Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06
Lately I'm also liking the "symphonic black" bands although I haven't bought any albums yet.  I particularly like the ones with angelic female vocals.  Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt. :P

I am surprised that Nicky didn't react to the"angelic female vocals" mention  ;D
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 14:34:18
Women singers are your department, Bups. I'm sure that even if we got Bluey singing for you, you would sit there dewy-eyed  ;D

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Bupie on Wed, 2008-02-13, 15:25:48
Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 14:34:18
Women singers are your department, Bups. I'm sure that even if we got Bluey singing for you, you would sit there dewy-eyed  ;D

Nicky.

I surely would be happy to see Bluey, singing or not, but I have not the slightest idea of what "dewy-eyed" means ...
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: PH on Wed, 2008-02-13, 17:32:01
Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 11:19:40But of course we roomies are very individualised in our tastes - and that's great - so you'l get an entirely different serving from e.g. Paco.

Well, I CERTAINLY agree with you on Dream Theater! That music is brilliant!
And Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, that's classic, every proggy should like it (even if you haven't heard it properly yet (like me ;D)).
Even Ten and I think Circus Maximus are bands that I would recommend. I haven't heard much of Ten, but I like what I DID hear!! And I've head samples of Circus Maximus: very promising. But there are so many bands that it's almost impossible to keep up.
I'm going for quality-discovering instead of quantity-discovering, which means that I want to listen, analyse, "feel" a band or album, before I go to the next discovery.

But here are the questions that I want to ask you, Manatee!

Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06Genesis (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound) – Still loved em with Phil until he caught the pop bug, but the Peter era is my favorite.
Here's another Genesis fan! *horns* I'm possibly the youngest Genesis fan here! I like all albums, but my favourites are Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb, A Trick Of The Tail, Wind And Wuthering and Duke.

Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06Peter Gabriel (3rd and 4th albums flawless IMO) - included in Genesis, but his first 4 solos are so good and so different from Genesis that he needs his own mention here
Can you please open a topic about Peter Gabriel? (Or "re-open", depends on wether there's already a topic or not, I didn't check.)
The songs that I heard were so different from Genesis, that I hesitated to try an album. Maybe you can specify why the albums are so good.

Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06IQ (Tales from the Lush Attic, The Wake) - probably belong on the list above, but I won't move them there until I complete my collection
You really should hear Seventh House and Dark Matter, they're brilliant!

Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06Jethro Tull (Thick as a Brick, Songs from the Wood, Aqualung, Minstrel in the Gallery, Bursting Out - my favorite live album by anyone)
Again, can you tell me more about this band? I've heard many good things about them, but not yet FROM them.

Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06Kansas (Leftoverture, Point of Know Return) - my first favorite band once I started buying my own music, don't listen to them so much anymore, but they still deserve mention
See above...

-Paco
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: johninblack on Wed, 2008-02-13, 17:46:37
Quote from: PH on Wed, 2008-02-13, 17:32:01
You really should hear Seventh House and Dark Matter, they're brilliant!



Yep, spot on Paco, absolutely superb albums well worth buying.

Welcome aboard Manatee.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Wed, 2008-02-13, 23:41:31
Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 11:19:40
You did add the disclaimer that you hadnt listed all your fave albums, but still it struck me that Dark Side Of The Moon, Zep 1-3, and Abbey Road were missing. These are in my mind masterpieces.

I can see that you havent really entered progmetal space yet. Dream Theater is an absolute MUST - yeah, everything they do is filled with magic, and you even live next door to them - and else for starters there's the wonderful melodic, but also harddriving, Ten; Circus Maximus, who are close to DT; Kamelot, who are more heavy and earthy, at least lately; Tool, who take off from Pink Floyd, but go into all sorts of terra incognito; just to name some of the best.

Nicky,

Yep, I wasn't kidding that it was just "some" of my faves.  Absolutely I could have listed Dark Side too, no question it's brilliant.  And there are no wrong Zeppelin albums.  My favorite song of theirs is probably Dazed and Confused, from Zep 1.  As for the Beatles, they never really excited me, maybe just because they've been getting played all over the place for pretty much my whole life.  I hear them often enough without trying to.

You're right that I haven't heard much prog metal.  To be honest, it wouldn't have occurred to me until recently that there was such a thing, although the music matters more than the label.  I'm still working on DT -- so far my impression is that the playing is excellent but I'm not crazy about the vocals.  Like bluepony said about the Vanden Plas singer in another topic, it's all personal taste, but some singers just strike you wrong (or right).  I do like Tool and have a couple of their albums (Undertow and Aenima).  I haven't heard the other bands (well one song from Kamelot on Pandora last night but not enough to decide if I like them), but I'll check them out.  I've also heard a handful of Threshold songs -- one (Elusive) I like a lot but was bummed to hear some grunts thrown in for no apparent reason.  Is there a topic where grunts are discussed?  I'm really puzzled by those and would like to hear what other folks have to say about them.

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-02-13, 11:19:40
Great to see another "oldie" (trying to rejuvenate myself with eight years)   ;D

We're not old, we're "classic."   :D

Paco,

I'd say that if you add Nursery Cryme, you've listed all the prime Genesis albums, although I might toss in Trespass too.  It has a murkier sound than the later albums, but I still like it, especially the Knife and White Mountain.

I'll be more than happy to talk about PG's solo stuff -- if there isn't a topic, we'll make one.  Briefly, I'd say his stuff is much less symphonic than Genesis, is much less keyboard-oriented, and often has very heavy, unusual percussion, sometimes even with an African flavor.  He also changes style from album to album and even sometimes from song to song.  It's not guaranteed that a Genesis fan will love PG solo stuff since it's so different, but I do.
I must say that after the 5th solo album he seemed to stray into areas that I didn't find so interesting, but I really should give that stuff more of a chance one of these days.

Re: IQ, I'll be getting all their albums ;D  What happened with them was this:  I discovered them through a college radio station that had a prog show.  I bought Lush Attic and The Wake and loved them.  Then, at about the same time, I moved out of range of that radio station and I got Nomzamo, which I found disappointing (apologies to Bupie).  So...I lost track of the band and didn't know Peter Nicholls was back.  I've now heard enough from of all the newer albums that I'm satisfied they need to be owned.  Subterranea came a couple weeks ago and has taken up residence in my car alongside Pepper's Ghost.  Ever is on order, and the others will follow, maybe even the Menel stuff -- it's not bad, just different.

Jethro Tull: wow, they definitely rate a topic of their own if there isn't one.  IMO they deserve to be listed among the fathers of prog along with Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, etc.  They've been around since the dawn of time with lots of personnel changes.  Ian Anderson is the core and probably the only one who's been there for everything.  He's a mad genius type who does vocals and a lot of flute.  I think they actually started as sort of a folk-jazz band, although they evolved from that pretty quickly.  To me, they've always had a bit of a medieval feel, partly because of Anderson's voice and maybe due to the choice of instruments (not much in the way of synths or modern-sounding keys).  They're not as keyboard-heavy as Genesis or Yes, although they do have some usually.  IMO, Thick as a Brick is their masterpiece, but it might not be the place to go for a first taste of them since it's all one song (well, technically 2 but only because you had to flip a record over in those days).  Aqualung is probably their most famous album (and the title track the most famous song).  I think the band still exists in some form, but their stuff I know best is what they did in the '70s.

Kansas: More "American" sounding than most older progs bands I can think of (not surprising since they're American and most of the others I know are British).  The use a lot of violin (maybe I should call it "fiddle" in their case) but not in a classical-sounding way.  A lot of pretty vocals but not experimental-sounding like Gentle Giant is.  I guess I'd say they focus more on melodies and less on impressive instrumentation than most other classic prog bands (not to say they can't play or the others don't have good melodies, but I think that's what stands out).  I'm having a little more trouble describing them than the others because, as I said, I haven't really listened to them much recently.  I have nothing of theirs on CD -- maybe I should fix that.


Everyone - thanks for the recommendations and the welcome!  I'll see you all around the Room.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Bupie on Thu, 2008-02-14, 10:30:41
Quote from: Manatee on Wed, 2008-02-13, 23:41:31
Re: IQ, I'll be getting all their albums ;D  What happened with them was this:  I discovered them through a college radio station that had a prog show.  I bought Lush Attic and The Wake and loved them.  Then, at about the same time, I moved out of range of that radio station and I got Nomzamo, which I found disappointing (apologies to Bupie).  So...I lost track of the band and didn't know Peter Nicholls was back.  I've now heard enough from of all the newer albums that I'm satisfied they need to be owned.  Subterranea came a couple weeks ago and has taken up residence in my car alongside Pepper's Ghost.  Ever is on order, and the others will follow, maybe even the Menel stuff -- it's not bad, just different.

No offense ... and I am starting to get used to the other roomies criticism  :'(  But I won't change my avatar anyway because I still do think that Are you Sitting Comfortably is one of the best albums that I own (and I think I own more than 500 now) and BY FAR my favorite IQ album. Nomzamo is a step behind, I admit.

Quote
Kansas: More "American" sounding than most older progs bands I can think of (not surprising since they're American and most of the others I know are British).  The use a lot of violin (maybe I should call it "fiddle" in their case) but not in a classical-sounding way.  A lot of pretty vocals but not experimental-sounding like Gentle Giant is.  I guess I'd say they focus more on melodies and less on impressive instrumentation than most other classic prog bands (not to say they can't play or the others don't have good melodies, but I think that's what stands out).  I'm having a little more trouble describing them than the others because, as I said, I haven't really listened to them much recently.  I have nothing of theirs on CD -- maybe I should fix that.

Yes, maybe. Everything from their debut to Vinyl Confessions is highly recommendable (this last one being much more AOR than prog, though). Then Kerry Livgren letf and they released a bunch of really terrible albums  :-X  Somewhere to Elsewhere saw the return of Livgren and good music. I recommend this one too. I could discuss for hours about Kansas, you know :)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: marcello on Thu, 2008-02-14, 16:03:19
That is a lovley diverse list Manatee

I am in love with IQ right now  :)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Mon, 2008-02-18, 10:33:44
Quote from: PH on Wed, 2008-02-13, 17:32:01
I'm going for quality-discovering instead of quantity-discovering, which means that I want to listen, analyse, "feel" a band or album, before I go to the next discovery.

Excellent, Paco  *horns*

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45
Nicky's inspired me to update this thread, although I'm not going to edit my original list because a) it would hurt my head and b) I intentionally set it up as a representative sample of my tastes and not an exhaustive list of everything I liked.  That said, a few additions seem warranted.


As before, I'm not going to mention every good album I think the band ever did, just listing a couple of highlights for each.

Porcupine Tree (Deadwing - IMO one of the best albums ever period, Nil Recurring, Warszawa)

Devin Townsend (Terria, Ocean Machine, really I think every album he's done under his own name other than the ambient experiments is essential)

Gazpacho (Night, Tick-Tock)

Kamelot (Black Halo, Ghost Opera)

King Crimson (Red, more on the way if the store didn't mess up)

Kate Bush (not new to me, but I notice she wasn't mentioned the first time, and she's Kate Bush - The Dreaming, The Kick Inside)

h-era Marillion  (Afraid of Sunlight - I'm sold on this one, so I'm getting there, guys)

Kino (Picture, that's all there is, right?)

Nightwish (Dark Passion Play -- I really like this album a lot, and I like the new vocalist better than Tarja -- not that Tarja is bad)

Riverside (still only 3 studio albums in North America, so consider them all listed -- Steve may have overstated the case when he said Rapid Eye Movement is the finest round thing on the planet that's not actually a biscuit but not by so very much)

Blackfield (Blackfield, II is on order)

Catherine Wheel (Chrome, Ferment -- again not new to me, but they're worth adding to the list)

Opeth (Damnation, Watershed -- still lots left to try by these guys)

Golden Palominos (Visions of Excess, Pure)

Frost* (Milliontown, haven't heard #2 yet -- I considered not mentioning them because of all the annoying vocal effects, but the music itself is top-notch, and it's got John Mitchell in it)

Martin Orford (The Old Road, Classical Music and Popular Songs)


Other comments:

I now have all the main studio releases by Arena (which is rather difficult to do, it turns out), so I can say that my faves (at least for now) are Pepper's Ghost and The Visitor.

I did get some Lacuna Coil although not the complete catalog yet.  In a Reverie is probably my favorite album of theirs.  And Cristina should still do vocals on every album by anyone.

I got all the post-Menel studio albums by IQ.  Still only have the pre-Menels and Nomzamo (Menel-era) on vinyl, need to do something about that.  Maybe I'll even get myself a copy of Are You Seated Comfortably? for myself as a gift to Bupie on his next birthday.   ;)

As before, I still haven't mentioned all the bands I like, and not appearing here doesn't mean I think something is unworthy -- just didn't come to mind at this moment.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: PH on Fri, 2009-07-10, 22:19:00
Impressive!

Quote from: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45
... Deadwing - IMO one of the best albums ever period ...

Can't agree often enough.

Quote from: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45
Kino (Picture, that's all there is, right?)

Well, not really. There is a VERY limited cd (in fact, it's sold out...) with demos and live tracks. Very interesting! No new studio album (yet) though... Unfortunately...

Quote from: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45
Blackfield (Blackfield, II is on order)

Good boy. 8)

Quote from: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45
Frost* (Milliontown, haven't heard #2 yet -- I considered not mentioning them because of all the annoying vocal effects, but the music itself is top-notch, and it's got John Mitchell in it)

Good grief! You just can't get away with that Manny! Get Experiments In Mass Appeal, it's EXCELLENT!

Other than that, nice list!

-Paco
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 23:18:16
Quote from: PH on Fri, 2009-07-10, 22:19:00
Good grief! You just can't get away with that Manny! Get Experiments In Mass Appeal, it's EXCELLENT!

Yeah, I expect I'll get around to ordering that one.  After all, it's got John Mitchell in it.   ;)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Bupie on Tue, 2009-07-14, 23:09:32
Quote from: Manatee on Fri, 2009-07-10, 18:30:45

Nicky's inspired me to update this thread, although I'm not going to edit my original list because a) it would hurt my head and b) I intentionally set it up as Gazpacho (Night, Tick-Tock)

I'd like to try but I read that they are clones of H' Marillion, so ...  :-\

QuoteKamelot (Black Halo, Ghost Opera)

King Crimson (Red, more on the way if the store didn't mess up)

I need to try both of them, especially KC. I was surprised by DT's cover of Lars Tongue ... I didn't think that KC had so heavy songs in their catalog

QuoteNightwish (Dark Passion Play -- I really like this album a lot, and I like the new vocalist better than Tarja -- not that Tarja is bad)

:o  :'(

QuoteI now have all the main studio releases by Arena (which is rather difficult to do, it turns out), so I can say that my faves (at least for now) are Pepper's Ghost and The Visitor.

Contagion didn't grip you ?

QuoteI got all the post-Menel studio albums by IQ.  Still only have the pre-Menels and Nomzamo (Menel-era) on vinyl, need to do something about that.  Maybe I'll even get myself a copy of Are You Seated Comfortably? for myself as a gift to Bupie on his next birthday.   ;)

Thanks, I appreciate but don't butcher the title of this great album, please  ;D


Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Tue, 2009-07-14, 23:27:08
Quote from: Bupie on Tue, 2009-07-14, 23:09:32
I'd like to try but I read that they are clones of H' Marillion, so ...  :-\

I read something about them originally being members of the Marillion fan club, but I really don't think they sound like Marillion (either version) at all.  Frankly, even though I'm beginning to acquire the taste for h-Marillion, I find Gazpacho better -- at least Night and Tick-Tock.   I haven't heard their earlier albums, and consensus seems to be these last two are by far their best.

Quote
Contagion didn't grip you ?

Of course it did.  Contagion's a great album; I just find those other two slightly greater -- for me a few of Contagion's songs are, while not just filler, perhaps not quite not up to the standard of the rest of the songs, probably because they were written to complete parts of the album's concept.  Nevertheless, it's excellent, and I wouldn't be disappointed if the new album is of similar quality.

Quote
Thanks, I appreciate but don't butcher the title of this great album, please  ;D

Abject apologies.  I am old and forgetful, so one must make allowances.   ;)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: aswas on Thu, 2009-07-16, 01:33:04
Nightwish has written some good material. I purchased the End of an Era DVD, and it is a great one. Lots of energy and emotion.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Thu, 2009-11-12, 12:22:51
Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2008-02-12, 22:36:06
Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt.

You really have to get over that, Greenie  ;)

There are so many excellent albums with growl !


Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2009-07-14, 23:27:08
I find Gazpacho better

I do too  *horns*

... and quite different  ;)

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Thu, 2009-11-12, 17:02:08
Quote from: Nicky007 on Thu, 2009-11-12, 12:22:51
You really have to get over that, Greenie  ;)

There are so many excellent albums with growl !

Well, I can get past it if it's in moderation and the rest of the music is excellent -- Opeth for example.  Peter Gabriel actually does it in one song (Moribund the Burgermeister), although in that case it fits because it's essentially used for comic effect and to define the character he's playing.  On the whole though, I still find it offputting.  There are times for special effects, but for a steady diet, I prefer actual singing.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Fri, 2009-11-13, 12:21:29
Well, as long as you keep exploring, you'l get there, Greenie. (Even Deenie has started growling when he reads the Room posts.)  ;D

I was also turned off by growl and shout for a long time, but then when I was gripped by the splendor of Ghost Reveries, I realised that I had to take the growl in stride  :)

Now I take it just as easily as clean vocals. I prefer variation tho, not non-stop growl.

Many metal groups with young musicians seem to get stuck in the rut of growl, and the instrumentalists can't stop banging around; then it gets monotonous  :(

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:15:51
Iggy... you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

What on earth is the point of forcing oneself to get so used to something horrid, that you actually start - in an automatic act of self-perseverance - to nurture the delusion that you can appreciate it? This is like a variation on the Stockholm syndrome or the mechanism behind the fact that people in child welfare and police having to deal with child pornography aquire a taste for the material they are required to study in depth. Ugly comparison, but no uglier than growling. I have hereby proven that beginning to aquire a taste for something you originally found bad, doesn't mean it is, has become, has ever been, or will ever be good. Growling is, has always been, and will always be, idiotic and non-brilliant.

Don't tell me there is a reward in there, more substantial than the ones you miss by spending all this time and energy on things you don't like when there is still so many things up your alley, that you haven't had the time to embrace yet!

Growling etc. can be tolerated if it isn't a bigger factor than it is in Ayreon, for instance. And even there, all the songs would be better off without. ;)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:26:40
Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:15:51
Iggy... you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

Not iggy = Nicky  ;D


Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:15:51
you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

Yup, "the more you love music, the more music you love".

I'l try to explain: I have a very dynamic attitude toward music; I like to get shaken, kicked (just not in the b*s), yanked, ripped etc. The music I love most is mainly such music that gives me a rough ride. To me that's the whole idea of "progressive".

OK, one can also go beyond "music". E.g. Dillinger Escape Plan are often venturing there. Then it gets more (intellectually) interesting than (emotionally) enjoyable.

But all that stuff that Cap wrote a couple of years ago about DT (remember) ... that's me  :)


Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:15:51
Growling is, has always been, and will always be, idiotic and non-brilliant.

Not more than living in a cold, dark, remote fjord with the goats  ;D ;D ;D

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:40:51
 :D I have hardly ever seen a goat. Did I call you Iggy, btw?!  ??? >:( Bloody hell, I get so upset about this horrible-noise-can-really-be-wonderful-sound stuff that I lose all sense of identity... :D

I prefer to listen to music I like. I haven't got time to listen to all the things I like anyway, so why pile up a lot of horse shit just to miss even more good music? Some new ground is being broken every now and again when something a bit different is introduced as an element in otherwise recognisable and enjoyable music. Just as often, the weird element is just weird and gets more irritating over time. Trumpets in metal, for instance. Not a good idea.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Fri, 2009-11-13, 19:08:12
Quote from: Nicky007 on Fri, 2009-11-13, 12:21:29
Well, as long as you keep exploring, you'l get there, Greenie. (Even Deenie has started growling when he reads the Room posts.)  ;D

I was also turned off by growl and shout for a long time, but then when I was gripped by the splendor of Ghost Reveries, I realised that I had to take the growl in stride  :)

Now I take it just as easily as clean vocals. I prefer variation tho, not non-stop growl.

Many metal groups with young musicians seem to get stuck in the rut of growl, and the instrumentalists can't stop banging around; then it gets monotonous  :(

Nicky.

Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:40:51
:D I have hardly ever seen a goat. Did I call you Iggy, btw?!  ??? >:( Bloody hell, I get so upset about this horrible-noise-can-really-be-wonderful-sound stuff that I lose all sense of identity... :D

I prefer to listen to music I like. I haven't got time to listen to all the things I like anyway, so why pile up a lot of horse shit just to miss even more good music? Some new ground is being broken every now and again when something a bit different is introduced as an element in otherwise recognisable and enjoyable music. Just as often, the weird element is just weird and gets more irritating over time. Trumpets in metal, for instance. Not a good idea.

On the whole, I lean toward Deenfan's position here.  If the music is extraordinary, I'll give it a chance despite the presence of non-singing singing, but given a choice between two groups that interest me equally except that one sings and one grunts/growls, I'll take the singers every time.  I doubt I'll ever view the grunting as a viable substitute for real singing.  It can be gotten used to, but at the least, that's one feature of the music that won't be there for me to enjoy (vocals).
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Iggy on Fri, 2009-11-13, 19:12:10
Quote from: Deenfan on Fri, 2009-11-13, 15:40:51
:D I have hardly ever seen a goat. Did I call you Iggy, btw?!  ??? >:(

;D  LOL

By the way the Canary Islands is the place to find goats. They have more rights there than humans as far as I can remember.

Oops off topic. My apologies Big Green Sea Mammal.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Fri, 2009-11-13, 19:19:33
Quote from: Iggy on Fri, 2009-11-13, 19:12:10
;D  LOL

By the way the Canary Islands is the place to find goats. They have more rights there than humans as far as I can remember.

Oops off topic. My apologies Big Green Sea Mammal.

Not to worry, we're always happy to hear about our fellow non-monkeylike mammals.  I rather thought they had mostly caribou up there.

On topic: still getting motivated to do a major LP overhaul, but I think we can safely assume Phideaux will be near the top of the new list considering I'm hearing them in my head even when I'm not playing them.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Mon, 2009-11-16, 16:26:22
Quote from: Bupie on Wed, 2008-02-13, 14:25:19
I am surprised that Nicky didn't react to the"angelic female vocals" mention  ;D

The only place I'v seen'm use it is in Angels In America, Bups - and there it's with a gay, so that complicates things  ;D

Female angels tend to be mother types rather than lover types - so there probably aint no French angels  :D

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Bupie on Tue, 2009-11-17, 10:51:47
I don't understand everything but you're right on one point : it's never too late to answer a post  ;D
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Tue, 2009-11-17, 14:28:44
Quote from: Bupie on Tue, 2009-11-17, 10:51:47
I don't understand everything

Ya can't fool me, Bups  ::)

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Tue, 2009-12-01, 18:34:51
Further adjustments and additions: (I'm still not editing the original post yet if ever though -- hurts my brain to contemplate)

Phideaux (Doomsday Afternoon and Chupacabras current favorites) - I love this band and will soon have the complete collection.  It's a bit soon to say, but I could almost see putting them in the absolute faves category.

Transatlantic - all three studio albums excellent - don't have the live stuff

Steve Hackett - (got two excellent live CDs of his and need to vinylly replace some studio stuff)  He probably deserved solo mention to begin with, but these live albums cemented it.    *horns*

IQ - Not removing them from my list certainly, but with all the new prog I've heard lately, they've faded a bit back to the pack (not as likely to be an all-time fave after all).  After several listens, I'm a bit disappointed with the new album too.  I actually prefer the solo Orford.  Then again, maybe I just need a rest from them since I've played them quite a lot.


Candidates that I like but need more exposure to:

Anathema - I have A Natural Disaster and like it a lot.  Need more examples.  Recommendations for a second album, anyone?

Satellite - Similar to the above: I just have A Street Between Sunrise and Sunset

Spock's Beard - Recently acquired Snow: good stuff, but I need to hear more

Magenta - I have two (Metamophosis, Another Time... Another Place...)   Jury's still out on this band.  I like them.  Question is, do I like them enough to make them what Nicky calls a "pantheon" band?  Need more plays and maybe another example.

It  Bites - I have The Tall Ships and think it's excellent prog pop.  I need to check out some from the original line-up to see if it's just the John Mitchell effect that I like.   ;)


Don't think they quite made it, but I like them somewhat and could be convinced by some further strong material:

Abigail's Ghost - I have both albums to date.  I like Selling Insincerity and find d_letion rather disappointing.

Blind Ego - I only have Mirror.  A few of the songs I like a lot.  Some of the rest strikes me as just OK.  Maybe Numb would convince me -- as I recall, it's supposed to be heavier, and I tend to like the heavy parts of Mirror best.

Bruford - I just have One of a Kind, and while it's certainly well done and has some nice passages, it's basically jazz and doesn't really do it for me.  Nevertheless, he obviously still deserves respect for being part of several excellent other projects.


There's a notable omission, which I will not bother to mention by name.  Suffice it to say that it's a work in progress.   ;)
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Iggy on Tue, 2009-12-01, 22:50:15
I'd go for Judgement as your second Anathema.

Well worth getting the Transatlantic Live albums not least because Maddox is on the European one (I think)  ;D

Satellite - Evening Games is a good Cd I haven't got a Street between Sunrise and Sunset.

Btw have you got Dark Matter and The Seventh House?
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Tue, 2009-12-01, 23:23:31
Quote from: Iggy on Tue, 2009-12-01, 22:50:15
Btw have you got Dark Matter and The Seventh House?

I have both.  I think Seventh House is underrated.  I love the first half of Dark Matter.  Harvest of Souls makes me feel a little uncomfortable.  The music is fine, and I actually pretty much agree with the points Peter N. is making on it, but let's face it, it's one big bash at my country.  I'm not all that patriotic, but it would have somehow felt less awkward if it had been an American band that said it (and there are plenty willing to do so).  It's sort of like it seems more ok to make an ethnic joke if you're a part of that ethnic group.   :-\   Also, I must say, Peter usually has a bit more of a subtle touch than he does on that one.

Anyhow, IQ does indeed have an impressive body of work, and by no means am I abandoning them.  I just think they may fall a bit short of my most favorite bands (and I only listed 4 or 5 of those total).
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Nicky007 on Wed, 2009-12-02, 11:47:45
Quote from: Manatee on Tue, 2009-12-01, 18:34:51
Anathema - I have A Natural Disaster and like it a lot.  Need more examples.  Recommendations for a second album, anyone?

A Natural Disaster is wonderful - probably my fave Anathema album  *horns*

Their first two studio albums are rather doomy/growly. I don't have'm myself, but the samples I'v heard don't anticipate the beauty of Eternity. I'd say, everything from Eternity on is great  8)

Since 2000 they have Lee Douglas on vocals, a young woman who sings stunningly beautifully  :-*

One of my fave groups - definitely pantheon  :)


Quote
Spock's Beard - Recently acquired Snow: good stuff, but I need to hear more

Another pantheon group  *horns*

I like the Neal-period albums, and I very much like his stories and metaphors.

Musically imo they took a big leap after Neal left. Probably Nick found some unknown resources within himself. Feel Euphoria (2003), Octane (2005), Spock's Beard (2006) are terrific albums  *horns*


Quote
Steve Hackett - (got two excellent live CDs of his and need to vinylly replace some studio stuff)  He probably deserved solo mention to begin with, but these live albums cemented it.    

I like Steve Hackett's stuff a lot too, but till now, I havent found him quite pantheon. However, I don't have any of his live stuff, and I'l take you up on that. Which live albums would you recom ?  :)

Nicky.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: Manatee on Fri, 2009-12-04, 18:24:43
Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2009-12-02, 11:47:45

I like Steve Hackett's stuff a lot too, but till now, I havent found him quite pantheon. However, I don't have any of his live stuff, and I'l take you up on that. Which live albums would you recom ?  :)

Nicky.

Well, the two I have (both Room rec's) are Genesis Revisited and The Tokyo Tapes (a double).   Both are spiffy.  Genesis Revisited is mostly his personal take on some Genesis songs.  Tokyo Tapes has a few of those and a bunch of other stuff (including Court of the Crimson King since John Wetton is in the band for this).  If I was to pick one, I'd probably go with Tokyo Tapes for being more varied and interesting, but I'm happy to have both.
Title: Re: Manatee
Post by: erik on Fri, 2010-01-01, 16:51:45
QuoteAnathema - I have A Natural Disaster and like it a lot.  Need more examples.  Recommendations for a second album, anyone?

Satellite - Similar to the above: I just have A Street Between Sunrise and Sunset

Anathema: as Iggy said, Judgement is a good next step. Alternative 4 and A Fine Day To Exit are also very worthwhile. I had The Silent Enigma which is ok musically (if imature) but has the infamous growls, did not remain in my collection. Next album Eternity (which I don't have) is said to be a transition album, more mellow and no growls but not as accomplished as the four albums that came after it. But Nicky is rather appreciative of it I see, so I may have to reconsider. I'm looking forward to their new album which has been in the pipeline for some time now, the new tracks I heard live and at their website are great!

Satellite: a good follow up is Evening Games I'd say, great album! Into The Night and Nostalgia grab me a bit less, Nostalgia is better though than the somewhat uneven Into The Night.

QuoteI like Steve Hackett's stuff a lot too, but till now, I havent found him quite pantheon. However, I don't have any of his live stuff, and I'l take you up on that. Which live albums would you recom ?
Before I just had Genesis Rev, Tokyo Tapes and Darktown, mainly because of the Genesis link. Hackett really came into my pantheon with Wild Orchids which impresses me a lot, also got its predecessor To Watch The Storms after that, then Guitar Noir and the great Live Archive box after I saw him live last year. The new one is marvellous and his first four albums are on my shopping list!