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How do you feel right now?

Started by Appelmoes??, Wed, 2005-10-26, 20:39:46

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The Butterfly Man

#1425
Quote from: maddox on Tue, 2008-10-28, 20:38:04
Do you know how? Or are they silent about that?

Quote from: PH on Tue, 2008-10-28, 20:40:13
Was she of the older kind of neighbours?


Man, that's actually pretty odd indeed... :-\

No, I don't know how she died or what happened. I do know they found her in her house. I think she was somewhere in between 45 - 55 years old. When the policemen asked when I saw her last I realised that I haven't seen her since I came back from holidays, almost 2 months ago.

Needless to say I didn't get much sleep last night, I just felt so strange about the whole thing. It's a scary thought that I've been living 'next' to a dead person for who knows how long.... And then there's this part of me that keeps thinking: "Why didn't I realise that I had not seen her lately? If I (or anyone else that lives next to her) would have realised sooner, would she still be alive right now?"

Why are we so busy living our own lives without caring about someone else's, even if it's someone we don't really know?

Tom
There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

Nicky007

Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 09:17:44
No, I don't know how she died or what happened.

The cops didnt find the bloody knife in your cupboard ? - and all the women's underwear ?  :o

Yeah, I know I'm nasty  :-[   I'm not usually like that  :)

Nicky.

So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

The Butterfly Man

Quote from: Nicky007 on Wed, 2008-10-29, 10:20:03
The cops didnt find the bloody knife in your cupboard ? - and all the women's underwear ?  :o

Note to self: Think twice before posting something about your feelings.
There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

Nicky007

OK, Tom, you're right about asking this question:

Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 09:17:44
Why are we so busy living our own lives without caring about someone else's, even if it's someone we don't really know?

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

maddox

Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 09:17:44


Why are we so busy living our own lives without caring about someone else's, even if it's someone we don't really know?

Tom

Unfortunately that's one of those questions you ask after something bad has happened.  :(

Sadly enough i don't know the answer either.
Cause of Injury: Lack of Adhesive Ducks.

Deenfan

Weird feeling, it must be.

The other question is, how can - or indeed why - someone go through life without making any sort of impact, if not leaving a legacy as such.

Maybe it's not the rest of us there is something wrong with? I'm just asking.

The Butterfly Man

Quote from: Deenfan on Wed, 2008-10-29, 14:07:58
Weird feeling, it must be.

The other question is, how can - or indeed why - someone go through life without making any sort of impact, if not leaving a legacy as such.

I don't know. It always looked as if she was living in her own little world. It happened quite often that when I said 'hello' or something like that she would not react at all. At other times she whispered a shallow 'hi' but she just didn't seem to be a person with whom you could have a normal conversation.

QuoteMaybe it's not the rest of us there is something wrong with? I'm just asking.

I don't really get what you mean here so I can't comment.

Tom


There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

PH

A good question indeed. I think it has to do with individualism.
Everyone of us is infected by individualism, and we're all a bit egocentric.

Let this be a lesson (to all of us, ofcourse!) to think about the others too.
Especially the older men and women.

I can speak for myself. I haven't seen my grandparents (from my mother's side) for more than two years now (for numerous reasons, but still). Often I think by myself "Actually I should go visit them sometime.".
Now, when "actually I should..." comes into play, all alarm bells should ring, because it will often be followed by "...but...".
This "human alarm bell function" is something we all have. And it's not there just for fun, right?


-Paco

Deenfan

#1433
Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 14:34:11

I don't really get what you mean here so I can't comment.


I mean, when somebody can die without being missed, we always assume there is something wrong with us, as in the ignorant people that surrounded said someone and didn't care. But what about this hugely ignored person? What if it's this person's fault? For instance, she didn't always even reply when you said hello. What can you expect?

And, are there any people on this planet that you care for and pay attention to, outside of your immediate family? If yes, there is nothing wrong with you. And you would be missed if you died. All these people would notice after a short while. Now, if we assume that most of us, if not all*, do care about and give our attention to some people, most of us can not be to blame, either. Maybe we are left with the ones (*) who do not care for anybody.

What if any one of these was to die?

Now, you see my point.

PH

Maddox, did you get an email back from DPRP?

:(

maddox

Cause of Injury: Lack of Adhesive Ducks.

PH


Teunis

Alone

Wife and daughter to the cinema, son at the soccer training. At least for a moment I am the boss in the house  ;D. And I can play my music loudly  ;).
'I will surrender my heart to the sky
Oh, our love doesn't end here, it lives forever on the wings of time'
-------------------------------------------------------
Toto - Wings of time (Kingdom of Desire)

PH

Quote from: Teunis on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:32:48
Alone

Wife and daughter to the cinema, son at the soccer training. At least for a moment I am the boss in the house  ;D. And I can play my music loudly  ;).

Enjoy it!

When no-one's at home I play my music and sing along (something I never do when someone's in the house!).


By the way, I feel good! The test I spoke of a few days ago went very well! ;)
I got a 9,1 for it! Only three others (of the 25) did better.


-Paco

maddox

Quote from: PH on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:41:05

By the way, I feel good! The test I spoke of a few days ago went very well! ;)
I got a 9,1 for it! Only three others (of the 25) did better.


-Paco

So all those worries for nothing?  :D

Well done, P-man.  8) *horns*
Cause of Injury: Lack of Adhesive Ducks.

The Butterfly Man

Quote from: Deenfan on Wed, 2008-10-29, 16:10:21
I mean, when somebody can die without being missed, we always assume there is something wrong with us, as in the ignorant people that surrounded said someone and didn't care. But what about this hugely ignored person? What if it's this person's fault? For instance, she didn't always even reply when you said hello. What can you expect?

And, are there any people on this planet that you care for and pay attention to, outside of your immediate family? If yes, there is nothing wrong with you. And you would be missed if you died. All these people would notice after a short while. Now, if we assume that most of us, if not all*, do care about and give our attention to some people, most of us can not be to blame, either. Maybe we are left with the ones (*) who do not care for anybody.

What if any one of these was to die?

Now, you see my point.

Yes, I totally see your point now and I think you're right. I was so put off by this experience yesterday and today that I almost blamed myself. Even though, deep inside, I knew that It's not really my fault that she is/was such a loner.

Actually I feel a bit better now, although I still find it creepy that I lived next to a dead woman for a while.

Thanks for making me see things in another perspective Deenfan!! :)

Tom
There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

Teunis

Quote from: PH on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:41:05
Enjoy it!

When no-one's at home I play my music and sing along (something I never do when someone's in the house!).

Thanks, I do! And I won't sing, I'm afraid that my neighbours will call emergency  ;).

Quote from: PH on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:41:05
By the way, I feel good! The test I spoke of a few days ago went very well! ;)
I got a 9,1 for it! Only three others (of the 25) did better.

Congrats, must be a relief. YAY!
'I will surrender my heart to the sky
Oh, our love doesn't end here, it lives forever on the wings of time'
-------------------------------------------------------
Toto - Wings of time (Kingdom of Desire)

maddox

I don't want to ruin anyone's perspective here but what makes us decide that the person that is a loner is different from the rest of the mere mortal?

There may be a valid reason why she decided to live in anonymity. Accidents, bad experiences with other people, abuse, whatever.
Some people are happy in the solid comfort they're in.
Sure, i agree that it's easier to miss these kind of people because when you aren't such person, there's a whole network of people/friends that surrounds you but in the end a 'loner' is just as human as the rest.  :-\

Still it is a bad (*) experience for you, Tom.





*wrong word, i know but i don't have another one right now.  :-[
Cause of Injury: Lack of Adhesive Ducks.

The Butterfly Man

#1443
Quote from: maddox on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:57:13
I don't want to ruin anyone's perspective here but what makes us decide that the person that is a loner is different from the rest of the mere mortal?

There may be a valid reason why she decided to live in anonymity. Accidents, bad experiences with other people, abuse, whatever.
Some people are happy in the solid comfort they're in.
Sure, i agree that it's easier to miss these kind of people because when you aren't such person, there's a whole network of people/friends that surrounds you but in the end a 'loner' is just as human as the rest.  :-\

Still it is a bad (*) experience for you, Tom.

I see what you mean, but I never said that because she is a loner she's any different from 'the rest of us'. But you see, I was kind of blaming myself and now, after reading and understanding Deenfan's post I see that was the wrong way of looking at it.

And for sure, she must have had her own reasons for choosing anonimity,  but still I didn't treat her any different, I always tried to be nice and friendly to her.

Tom

(It's always a bit of a struggle to explain what's on your mind in another language, especially these more serious things...)
There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

Iggy

Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 21:10:41
I see what you mean, but I never said that because she is a loner she's any different from 'the rest of us'. But you see, I was kind of blaming myself and now, after reading and understanding Deenfan's post I see that was the wrong way of looking at it.

And for sure, she must have had her own reasons for choosing anonimity,  but still I didn't treat her any different, I always tried to be nice and friendly to her.

Tom

(It's always a bit of a struggle to explain what's on your mind in another language, especially these more serious things...)

I'm sad that you went through this experience Tom.

On your second point though.

I constantly forget that most of you don't live in the UK and are communicating in a second language. Hats off to all of you.

Nicky007

#1445
I went to bed early yesterday and had a good night's sleep, so I got up 1½ hours earlier than usual. Pusle was quite surprised to get a full meal this early (usually I don't manage in the morning). And so I also got around to writing these two posts.

Tom, it was mean of me to write my earlier post, but I hope you know me well enough now to see that I also have my compassionate side. And I can understand that you're struggling to come to terms with the death of your neighbor. Hope you got some strength from the fine posts of other roomies here  :)

Nicky.
So you've come of age
And so you want to meet God
Sure you can
He's right here next to me

The Butterfly Man

Quote from: Nicky007 on Thu, 2008-10-30, 05:51:55
Tom, it was mean of me to write my earlier post, but I hope you know me well enough now to see that I also have my compassionate side. And I can understand that you're struggling to come to terms with the death of your neighbor. Hope you got some strength from the fine posts of other roomies here  :)

Indeed, I know you can be compassionate but I feel/felt so bad about what happened that I wasn't quite in the mood to laugh about your comment. I still cannot laugh about it but I feel a lot better now, although this strange feeling inside me remains.

Tom
There will be white clouds beyond the hills...

maddox

#1447
Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 21:10:41
I see what you mean, but I never said that because she is a loner she's any different from 'the rest of us'. But you see, I was kind of blaming myself and now, after reading and understanding Deenfan's post I see that was the wrong way of looking at it.


I see your point.

Deenie is right when he says that blaming yourself is never an option.
It only lead you from bad to worse.

I'm glad that this discussion helps you out a bit.
Cause of Injury: Lack of Adhesive Ducks.

Deenfan

Quote from: The Butterfly Man on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:47:40

Thanks for making me see things in another perspective Deenfan!! :)

Tom

You're welcome. It might just be what I do best. I've always heard people bring up the one side of this, which might be valid and thought-provoking enough, but I never saw anyone shed light on the other side. Which is why I have to.

Quote from: maddox on Wed, 2008-10-29, 20:57:13
I don't want to ruin anyone's perspective here but what makes us decide that the person that is a loner is different from the rest of the mere mortal?

There may be a valid reason why she decided to live in anonymity. Accidents, bad experiences with other people, abuse, whatever.
Some people are happy in the solid comfort they're in.
Sure, i agree that it's easier to miss these kind of people because when you aren't such person, there's a whole network of people/friends that surrounds you but in the end a 'loner' is just as human as the rest.  :-\


Absolutely agree on the last point, but let me start at the top: We're all different, with the odd exception... ;) Some are loners, and some are loners AND the life and the death of the party. All are unique, and can go through different moods throughout a normal week, let alone a year or a life, so the assumption that the rest of us are the same is more wrong that the assumption that the loner is different. A bit of philosophical mindtrickery, there.

Next, if she decided to live in anonymity, who are we to intrude? It is most sad and regrettable if abuse or similar is the reason, and maybe some good experiences with people would help a lot. But we can not know, without getting close, and we can't force ourselves upon such a person - we'd make it a lot worse. If you're on to something, it'll be the last thing she needed. An uncomplicated hello and a nod/smile, offhand remark... that's how far we can go. The ball is in her court. You've got to respect the choice to be alone, too. Maybe she IS different, in that she needs solitude? We always feel bad for them, but don't we just base those feelings on the assumption they would like to live a life more like ours?

Granted, there are people out there who have all they need, and wouldn't for a second think about smiling at any one outside their circles, but I can't believe they make up a majority.

"Folks have got to make choices
And choices got to have voices
Folks are basically decent
Conventional wisdom would say
But we read about the exceptions
In the papers every day"
N.Peart

Draco chimera

I feel good. This week-end, I am with friends and here's the list of our instruments :
1 piano
1 electric guitar
1 electric bass
2 acoustic nylon guitars
But there's no drummer  :-\
Let your conscience decide !