John Wetton

[Nicky007]

This musician mystifies me:

On the one hand, his contributions to the Crimson albums Red and Larks' Tongues In Aspic are unquestionably top rate, Family were one of my fave bands back in the 70's, and I have a notion that I'd like UK too (as SW does); on the other hand, I find Asia a total pop sellout, the songs are so banal as to make me cringe (or worse, considering our cheesy anti-hero), and Steve Howe has been de-balled to the extent that we should call his character in Asia, Steve Frau (or Abgehowen). (Hope I'm not hurting your feelings too badly, Teunis, if you're back from the outer galaxy  )

So what I'd like now is a characterisation of John Wetton's catalog, of course mainly the successful parts 

Nicky.

[The Butterfly Man]

Well, I don't really like Asia (for the same reasons as you) but I do like his 'solo'-albums, especially Battle Lines and Rock Of Faith. Mind you, they are still quite poppy, but there are some great songs to be found on these cd's. I'm not familiar with the rest of JW's catalog, so I can't comment on those albums. Oh, by the way, Rock Of Faith features John Mitchell on guitar. He's also present on the Wetton/Downes projects Icon and Icon II (also a bit too poppy for my liking, but with some brilliant guitarwork)...

Tom

[PH]

Oh, by the way, Rock Of Faith features John Mitchell on guitar.

And Clive Nolan on keyboards!

I have to check out this album too.
I really like the first Asia album, and a few others too.


-Paco

[The Butterfly Man]

And Clive Nolan on keyboards!

You're right. How could I forget?

But you should really check this album out, I think you'll like it!

Tom

[Bupie]

on the other hand, I find Asia a total pop sellout, the songs are so banal as to make me cringe (or worse, considering our cheesy anti-hero), and Steve Howe has been de-balled to the extent that we should call his character in Asia, Steve Frau (or Abgehowen). (Hope I'm not hurting your feelings too badly, Teunis, if you're back from the outer galaxy  )
Nicky.

To be honest, Nicky, it's really beyond me that you can like so much Ten and in the same time dislike Asia, at least their first album 

Well, I don't really like Asia (for the same reasons as you) but I do like his 'solo'-albums, especially Battle Lines and Rock Of Faith. Mind you, they are still quite poppy, but there are some great songs to be found on these cd's. I'm not familiar with the rest of JW's catalog, so I can't comment on those albums. Oh, by the way, Rock Of Faith features John Mitchell on guitar. He's also present on the Wetton/Downes projects Icon and Icon II (also a bit too poppy for my liking, but with some brilliant guitarwork)...

Tom

I like Battle Lines moderately (Steve Lukather and Simon Philips are contributing on a few songs if I don't mistake  ) but Rock Of Faith left me completely cold at first listen : way too mellow  But I'll try it again.

[maddox]

Well basically i think that John Wetton has a rather dull, straight forward and with almost no emotion, kinda like most of Nicolage Cage's films by the way, but overall i do like his performance, especially in the aforementioned K.C. albums Red and Lark's Tongues.
Those two albums are classics in my view, Essential Masterpieces to be precise.
And what to think of U.K.?

I only have the first three Asia albums and i really liked it. Great rock albums with proggish influences. Call it PiP-rock. 
It's funny though that i only like the first three albums especially because of a certain guitar player with the initials S.H. 

He does have a good rock voice. Somehow it really matches all of the projects/bands he has been a part off.

[Teunis]

Well, John Wetton is one of my favourite vocalists. I'm an Asia fan since the beginning. I like both the John Wetton and the John Payne era. The reunion album 'Phoenix' was a major disappointment though. I don't mind you don't like them Nicky by the way. You shouldn't argue about taste they say in The Netherlands  . I own three solo albums: Battle Lines, Archangel and Rock of Faith and a live album 'Chasing The Dragon'. Don't play them that often, but they're very enjoyable. I agree with Tom about the 'Icon' project. Great arrangements, but too 'poppy'.

[bellanova]

well after the first 3 Asia albums, John Payne took over the vocals and bass. I like him alot and hes more of a rock star than JW. JW sings on the album Then and Now. I like JWs solo work and work woth Icon more i think and of course his Crimson stuff and UK as well.
Now the original Asia is back together and im going to see them in April so i will reseve judgement til then. Asia was my first introduction to prog but having much more knowledge now i dont think they are remotely proggy. Rock played by prog nusicians but thats just my view.

[Steve Jones]

I'm very much a Wetton fan, except I'm not too keen on Asia apart from the first album.

Something of an oblique recommendation would be: http://www.stevehackett.com/albums/ttapes.html
Both the CD and the DVD are excellent, with some great contributions from JW.  Especially a low-key version of 'Heat of the Moment' which I find particularly spine-tingling

[Nicky007]

You shouldn't argue about taste they say in The Netherlands

Yes, of course, Teunis, particularly since I know that you're very serious about your music, just like the rest of us roomies, so all respect 

And due to you, I'v also made several attempts with the first Asia album - but despite my best efforts, I simply can't follow what you and other proggie Asia fans find so interesting. I find that Wetton's lyrics are banal, their music very standard, and there's nothing that catches me in Steve Howe's playing in Asia, while otoh in Yes, I find him at times stunning

Well, no major issue for me. It's just that I'v listened a lot to Crimson lately and wondered about this puzzling musician.

To be honest, Nicky, it's really beyond me that you can like so much Ten and in the same time dislike Asia, at least their first album 

OK, with both Asia and Ten, there's a strong emphasis on melody, and this they both succeed in superbly.

Else I agree that Ten are not quite a prog group (they're pretty much as prog as Threshold), but

1. I find Gary Hughes' stories and lyrics some of the most fascinating in the rock scene, his critical views on matters like technology, karma & reincarnation, power, and his perennial affirmation that love overrules all other drives and their fruits and redeems man - very Faustian in fact. This guy is a true philosopher-musician (on par with Clive). I find nothing near that in Asia.

2. Gary Hughes is one of the most expressive and gripping singers around imo.

3. While Steve Howe is bound up in Asia, GH gives space to his musicians to unfold themselves, and Chris Francis proves himself in Ten and GH's solo projects to be one of the most exciting guitarists.

4. Ten are far heavier than Asia, have more primal drive. (Ten are also a later group, so that explains some of it.)

And I still believe that Arena fans would find a lot to enjoy in Ten music.

Well basically i think that John Wetton has a rather dull, straightforward and with almost no emotion, kinda like most of Nicolage Cage's films by the way, but overall i do like his performance, especially in the aforementioned K.C. albums Red and Lark's Tongues.

Interesting characterisation, Mad 

I'm fascinated by Nicholas Cage's characters, and I know him very well by now.

Nicky.

[Bupie]

Thanks for the detailed explanation on Ten/Asia, Nick.

Mad, I don't know what led you to your comparison between John Wetton and Nicholas Cage but I find it interesting and I may join you here since there are many films with Nicholas Cage (especially a De Palma's one and another one where he is on a plane with runaway prisoners including a scene where Sweet Home Alabama pops in  ) that I enjoyed but I don't remember being really moved by one of them.

Now the original Asia is back together and im going to see them in April so i will reseve judgement til then. Asia was my first introduction to prog but having much more knowledge now i dont think they are remotely proggy. Rock played by prog nusicians but thats just my view.

I saw them live a looooong time ago in Paris (Steve Howe and Geoff Downes were there for sure and I'm also pretty certain that John Payne was the vocalist/bassist) and I enjoyed the gig a lot. I think it was on the Aqua Tour.

The last album I heard from them was Aria and I didn't like this one at all. I found it totally uninspired.

I think you should have fun. 

[Nicky007]

Mad, I don't know what led you to your comparison between John Wetton and Nicholas Cage but I find it interesting and I may join you here since there are many films with Nicholas Cage that I enjoyed but I don't remember being really moved by one of them.

He's a star. He plays in some top-league movies (like World Trade Center) and in some dumbass movies (like the National Treasure movies), but I'd even watch the latter, or parts of'm, just to see him playing.

Intriguing passage by A.O. Scott in his NYTimes review of WTC:

"How will Hollywood respond? This question began to surface not long after the Sept. 11 attacks — shockingly soon after, if memory serves.

It was impossible to banish the thought, even in the midst of that day's horror and confusion, that the attacks themselves represented a movie scenario made grotesquely literal. What other frame of reference did we have for burning skyscrapers and commandeered airplanes? And then our eyes and minds were so quickly saturated with the actual, endlessly replayed images — the second plane's impact; the plumes of smoke coming from the tops of the twin towers; the panicked citizens covered in ash — that the very notion of a cinematic reconstruction seemed worse than redundant. Nobody needed to be told that this was not a movie. And at the same time nobody could doubt that, someday, it would be."

http://movies.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/movies/09worl.html

Nicky.