Twilight of the Bands

[bluepony]

So how would you explain the revival of darker kinds of music like gothic then...?

I think bands like Evanescence, Within Temptation and Nightwish aren't exactly a happy party-people band either....

Well, I think that's rather a trend than anything else. Remember, a few years ago Metallica was THE band to listen to - they were on every radio station, their songs went in the charts - and where are they now?

Of course having a girl singer may help...  And rather good-looking guys like Ville Valo are a good reason to buy a H.I.M. CD, don't you think? 

But seriously, if I bought my CDs because of the LOOKS of people that make the music... there'd be something wrong!

[JJ II]

-> Metallica: where they are? still selling out huge venues! (not stadiums perhaps, but still)

-> Looks: alsways have been important and I do think that many bands have become big because of the looks (Duran Duran, U2)

-> Gothic being a 'trend', well of course, you have to be in a trend to be succesful. Yes was in the 70's (CTTE went to #1 in Holland!!), Genesis in the 80's, Nirvana in the 90's and Keane in the 2000's.

If Muse, Porcupine Tree and Within Temptation can do well, other bands can. But yes, marketing is an important thing. For example, many times when I some of that alternative, indie rock on the radio, I keep thinking 'man, if this is a hit, why isn't The Urbane? They're at least as good as this. I know the answer! Marketing Power!

[Nicky007]

I like the dialog that you're conducting with yourself, JJ.

But seriously, if I bought my CDs because of the LOOKS of people that make the music... there'd be something wrong!

If we had Clive's snout on the cover of the next A-CD, it would sell 542 copies (well, minus one, because Paco never buys A-CD's  ).

Nicky.

[bluepony]

-> Metallica: where they are? still selling out huge venues! (not stadiums perhaps, but still)

Of course they are, but you miss my point - they're no longer the whole world's favourite band, it's no longer 'hip' to be a Metallica fan - at least not in the way it was in the 90s!

-> Looks: alsways have been important and I do think that many bands have become big because of the looks (Duran Duran, U2)

So? Rob is quite nice to look at! Spread that word among the chart-music-girlies... 

If Muse, Porcupine Tree and Within Temptation can do well, other bands can. But yes, marketing is an important thing. For example, many times when I some of that alternative, indie rock on the radio, I keep thinking 'man, if this is a hit, why isn't The Urbane? They're at least as good as this. I know the answer! Marketing Power!

Hmmm... and the consequence is...?

[PH]

Of course they are, but you miss my point - they're no longer the whole world's favourite band, it's no longer 'hip' to be a Metallica fan - at least not in the way it was in the 90s!

But that's not what we're aiming at, or what? We don't need Arena to be hip or popular by everyone. But just like Metallica nowadays, Arena should still sell out huge venues. Like Porcupine Tree. Porcupine Tree isn't as hip as Metallica once was, but it's popular enough to go well. That's how Arena should be too.

So? Rob is quite nice to look at! Spread that word among the chart-music-girlies... 

Might be, but not good enough for the mass, I think... Too bad that society is all about the looks and not the kindness from within...

[JJ II]

Of course they are, but you miss my point - they're no longer the whole world's favourite band, it's no longer 'hip' to be a Metallica fan - at least not in the way it was in the 90s!

No, but, like Marillion... they have a name now and will be recognised by anyone even if no-one had ever bought their last 4 albums...

I think the only realistic comparison to Arena is Porcupine Tree, cause the did not have a hit, don't have a charismatic female front-woman. And yet, they're doing increasingly better all the time.

Whatever comparison within the neo-prog scene: they all have the same problem.

Rob is quite nice to look at!

Yeah, but the music is probably not girl-friendly enough. So: either you make girls music (whatever that is) and have a handsome frontman ór you maken tough, intricate mans music and have a handsome girl up front.

[bluepony]

But that's not what we're aiming at, or what? We don't need Arena to be hip or popular by everyone. But just like Metallica nowadays, Arena should still sell out huge venues. Like Porcupine Tree. Porcupine Tree isn't as hip as Metallica once was, but it's popular enough to go well. That's how Arena should be too.

I think the only realistic comparison to Arena is Porcupine Tree, cause the did not have a hit, don't have a charismatic female front-woman. And yet, they're doing increasingly better all the time.

So what did Porcupine Tree do differently?!

[JJ II]

I don't know, but for some reason they manage to get bigger audiences every year, an interesting deal in the states, playing on Broadway, etc.

Maybe it's the right type of music for the moment, maybe it's just a good marketing deal.

One thing I know for sure: it's not their happy sound, nor their charismatic goodlooking frontman. So, there must be hope for Arena (who have a great frontman!)

[bellanova]

So what was done differently in the 70s to make prog as big as it was? Its too much to do with the music biz moguls like Simon Cowell. I mean does he even know how good prog is?
As for me saying about Robs looks, i only meant that i dont really like any female singers. I wouldnt want to change Arenas style for the world. Some of us "girlies" like that kind of music. It stirs the soul and touches your heart!

[bluepony]

I wouldnt want to change Arenas style for the world. Some of us "girlies" like that kind of music. It stirs the soul and touches your heart!

Amen, sister! 

[bluepony]

We don't need Arena to be hip or popular by everyone.

No?!?! But I thought that was what this thread is all about! 

[maddox]

So what did Porcupine Tree do differently?!

The answer to that question lies in the fact that PT has a bigger record-company behind them. They are well better supported by their record company because of more funds.
The more money they bring in, the easier it gets to reach more new listeners. You then get more adverts in various magazines, better support with leaflets etc.
For instance and this is just a tiny example, when i visited the Marillion gig on the 16th of May this year, there were a few guys who gave leaflets of a Fish-gig later this year to the audience.
That usually is done by the so called street-teams by the way.
A better designed MySpace-site would do the trick too. 

[PH]

It's not necessary to be hip. I want Arena just like with Porcupine Tree. Porcupine Tree isn't hip or popular by the mass either, but they sell bigger venues than Arena.

And, I'm a boy of course, but I think Steven Wilson is quite the charismatic goodlooking frontman.
And don't forget that they have songs that are very radiofriendly (Lazarus, Trains, Shesmovedon, Piano Lessons etc etc)

[Nicky007]

So? Rob is quite nice to look at! Spread that word among the chart-music-girlies... 

Bluey, you do have a very special taste. I consider Rob to be a great singer with a lot of charisma, but good looks 

If Rob became the singer of Duran Duran, people would think that they'd turned up at a burlesque.

Nicky.

[PH]

If Arena made me the frontman, Arena would be a lot more popular.

[Stuart]

JJ II has it right on the money (as Mr Cowell would say), it's purely down to marketing.
You can have the best product in the world, but marketing is what gets in into peoples hands.

Popular music is only popular because it is marketed at the target audience relentlessly through every possible media.
Prog Rock had some of that in the 70s with EMI devoting a whole label to the genre (Harvest).

Take a new band releasing on Inside Out for example. They get the benefit of their well oiled marketing engine and contacts. Releasing on that label means you will end up doing loads of phone interviews with people from all over the world, as well as direct press interviews and even some radio slots. It is a front end intensive, but once that's done, there is little else other than the inserts in Inside Out CDs as they need to move onto the next release.

I've said it, and a few others have said similar things here, having some form of co-operative of prog bands would help spread the word to a wider audience, and spread the cost of the marketing effort.

[Nicky007]

We don't need Arena to be hip or popular by everyone.

No?!?! But I thought that was what this thread is all about!  

You know, quite honestly, I consider Arena music to be classic in the same sense as Beethoven's symphonies are, and Beatles and Pink Floyd, and Shakespeare's Hamlet, for that matter. What qualifies something as classic is that it is so rich that once the spark is there, one can return to it again and again and always find something refreshing in it.

Further, I believe that there is a sense of beauty and depth in every single person; it can be more or less accessible. So I'm certain that Arena eventually will touch the hearts and minds of millions, as Beethoven and the others do.

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

If Arena made me the frontman, Arena would be a lot more popular.

... with Pusle and her ilk, as they're hot on caterwauling 

Nicky.

[bluepony]

Bluey, you do have a very special taste. I consider Rob to be a great singer with a lot of charisma, but good looks 

If Rob became the singer of Duran Duran, people would think that they'd turned up at a burlesque.

Nicky.

Nicky, if you knew my REAL taste you'd be shocked...! 

[JJ II]

Steven Wilson is quite the charismatic goodlooking frontman.

Sorry, are we talking about the same non-talkative, not-communicating, depressive looking, foot-staring guitarplayer ??

having some form of co-operative of prog bands would help spread the word to a wider audience, and spread the cost of the marketing effort.

There must me some reason they don't. I think it's 'the part of the profit' the got, but still, a smaller part of a bigger profit could be interesting. I do believe a cooperation between bands like IQ, Pendragon, Jadis, It Bites, Landmarq, and so on, could really work. Not just for the marketing, but for other things as well.

[bluepony]

Sorry, are we talking about the same non-talkative, not-communicating, depressive looking, foot-staring guitarplayer ??

Probably not... if your experience is so different! 

[bellanova]

Well Steven Wilson does it for me! lol

[Nicky007]

Nicky, if you knew my REAL taste you'd be shocked...! 

Osama bin Laden, of course. Why didn't I come onto that earlier. That's why he has four wives.

He's into death metal for REAL.

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

And don't forget that they have songs that are very radiofriendly (Lazarus, Trains, Shesmovedon, Piano Lessons etc etc)

You know, what makes the whole thing really incomprehensible is that Arena actually do have some radiofriendly songs. Particularly Witch Hunt is hot, no matter how you look at it. If anyone made the effort to broadcast WH through MTV, Arena would be an overnight sensation. However, I'm not sure that the A-guys would want that, nice down-to-earth people as they are.

I have a strong feeling that Clive & Co. want Arena to be a "seek, and you shall find" sort of thing (Matthew 7,7, in case you didn't know). Aint I right about that?

Man, I really got into JJ's autodialog style here 

Nicky.

[JJ II]

And don't forget that they have songs that are very radiofriendly (Lazarus, Trains, Shesmovedon, Piano Lessons etc etc)

Maybe they are, but they've never been played, so that hasn't done the track. Even stranger: they're taking of right now, after a few quite inaccessible albums.

Man, I really got into JJ's autodialog style here

sorry?