Twilight of the Bands

[bluepony]

Osama bin Laden, of course.

Of course, who else!! You know me so well... 

I have a strong feeling that Clive & Co. want Arena to be a "seek, and you shall find" sort of thing (Matthew 7,7, in case you didn't know). Aint I right about that?

I'm not so sure... but maybe I'm wrong?

[Nicky007]

sorry?

Not really. Sorry 

Nicky.

[JJ II]

Well Clive (who started this thread) and others... I just accidentally stumbled upon this nice rant by a certain mr.Godfrey....

I'm probably going to get shouted at a lot for this one...but.

There's been a lot of talk lately about music piracy. The message is that if it doesn't stop, a lot of progressive rock bands will go out of business and the genre will die out forever.

My gut feeling is – and?

There's been some speculation that unless piracy is stopped, all new music will die. Oh, do fuck off...

If anything, it'll grow beyond anything we can comprehend at the moment. I'll bet anybody £1,000,000 that new songs will be released for public consumption every week for the rest of my life and my son's and my grandchildren's life too. Who cares if we pay for it. Most people make music for the fun of it, perhaps the future of music is with the gifted amateurs. Maybe that's precisely what music needs - a bit of a clear out from all of us in the moaning old boys brigade that should have retired years ago.

Music and media piracy has been going on since the beginning of time. If any of you have been to Thailand, you'll know what I mean. You can buy DVDs of films before they're even on general release. When I was there, you could even buy a copy of "Raiders Of The Lost Ark 4″. I wish I had now in hindsight...

Does anyone remember the "Home taping is killing music" campaign in the 80's? Oh, how we all frowned and looked concerned. This'll be the death of music we cried. Well, if I remember rightly, the world didn't end did it? We, the record buying public, still managed to make multi multi millionaires out of Sting and U2 and The Police and Michael Jackson and Bruce Springsteen and Dire Straits and Prince and Madonna and Genesis and Elton John and Enya and then later, Britney Spears and Take That and The Spice Girls and Christina Aguilera and Eminem and Robbie Williams and Dido and and... do you need me to go on?

If the small acts are struggling, it's because they're small. You can't have the big without the small. That's life. Sounds really harsh I know, but not everyone can start a band and expect to end up being Bono. Maybe your Chi was out of alignment on the day you started your band. We can't all be rock stars. Shit happens. Deal with it.

If I may be so bold, perhaps sales of prog rock are down because, with a few notable exceptions, these days it's mostly self referential, smug, cliché ridden arse gravy. Milliontown only sold about 9,000 copies I think, but you don't hear me complaining about it. Frankly, I'm not surprised it sold that badly, it's got a 26 minute long song about zombies on it for fuck's sake. Who are we kidding here?? Prog's time was the 70's, just as psychadelia was a product of the 60's. It's simply not relevant anymore. You don't hear "In The Mood" on XFM do you? Or The 5th Dimension? We don't hear them on contemporary radio anymore than we should expect to hear "Supper's Ready" on the Chris Moyles show tomorrow morning.

We are a novelty sideshow. Up there with people who do classic battle re-enactments on Sundays or who think they're actually living in The Matrix. And those of us who can accept that with a wry smile and still enjoy the ride are all the better for it. We know who we are and are confident enough to be happy with that. But those of us who take it too seriously and think such a tiny corner of the universe actually has the capaicty to afford us some kind of living are going to lose. It's a case of evolve or die ufortunately. A good case in point would be Marillion. I totally admire what they've done to combat adversity and it's great to see a band like that bend the rules to their own advantage. If only other bands would take some time to be inspired by that rather than bitter about the unfairness of it all, they might see a similar reversal of fortune occur slightly nearer to home.

Musicians making records are no different from chefs making food. If you're still serving up the same food you were making in 1975, no wonder your restaurant is in the shit compared to the nearby Gordon Ramsay establishment... Yes, piracy is bad and it is having a big effect on sales, but prog's hardly doing itself any favours with all this mellotron and widdly widdly shit is it? I mean we're hardly selling ourselves as a vibrant, must-have music genre worth fighting for are we? A few well-meant MySpace domains isn't going to make it go away. The people that download aren't doing it maliciously, they're simply taking the path of least resistance to obtain the things they want. That's been the way of things since we started walking on two legs and probably even before that actually.

Frost is my hobby. My Grand Designs project. My Harley Davidson during my mid life crisis. It's a thing to be enjoyed for what it is. If every single person downloads the new album, to be honest, I won't really care. I will still probably make another one. I'm not doing this to make a living. I already have 2 other livings and that's my point. I've had to evolve both as a musician and as a businessman. I stopped doing music entirely in my early 20's to go and work in radio because I could clearly see that my stars were not in alignment to be a global superstar. Therefore I stopped pissing about with it and got on with something that could sustain me financially and be creatively fulfilling at the same time. I have no sympathy for those that "hung in there" and failed because you make your own luck when things get shitty. It was largely fluke that I got into songwriting in my 30's and even now, I fully expect it to stop tomorrow. I'd be an arsehole if I didn't. That's why my main line of work is actually writing music for TV and Radio. You've gotta have a Plan B.

For all I know, Inside Out could ring me tomorrow having read this and drop me on the spot for being an opinionated twat. So be it. That's their prerogative. I hope that's not the case obviously, but again, I have a plan B...

The music industry is a cold, hard, financially motivated place to spend your time. And this isn't a new thing, this has been the way of things since popular music came into being. Please don't kid yourselves that this is a bunch of caring, sharing businessmen who want to see you express yourself as an artist. Elvis took 50% of the writer's share when he covered their songs. That was the deal. A well know female pop star even now buys you off of the songs you write with her so that it's credited entirely to her on the sleeve notes. TV companies take half your publishing when you write music for them. With no negotiation. You have to give half your money away just to be involved. There's no point rolling your eyeballs and tutting because if you can't hack it, I and many others like me will happily take your place in the queue. That's the reality of it. Evolve or die.

The high street in my village is dying on it's arse at the moment and everyone is up in arms about it, but again, I find it hard to be sympathetic. How can the village bookshop compete with Amazon? It can't so why pretend that it can. The village ironmonger (outgoing) has even gone to the papers about his plight, but everytime you go in there and ask for something, he tuts and says he has to order it in. In the case of the axe I bought from him that was 2 fucking weeks! I could have driven to B and Q and sorted it out in 15 minutes, but I hung in there as a show of support. Fat lot of difference that made.

When Wife went in for a replacement part for the strimmer, he denied the part she was after even existed and gave her proper 1940's style sexist rhetoric about knowing what you're talking about before you go in asking for things.

Sorry, but that's not how people do business in the 21st century. I don't want that shit in my village, I want a great delicatessen, a wine merchant, a dry cleaners, a branch of my bank, a fishmonger, a butcher and a shop where I can buy baked beans and bog roll at 11pm. I won't miss the 4 estate agents, the rubbish Ironmonger, the electricians that's only open 3 days a week and the 2 hairdressers frankly. See ya.

The greengrocer, however, is branching out into deli stuff and locally made and grown food. Really good Sussex made products. You can buy stuff in there that you can't get in Sainsbury's and they're doing really well. And that's my point, there ARE ways to make a living as an artisan in these ghastly times, you just have to be prepared to be a bit more lateral with your definition of what it is that you do. Again, I present them Marillion boys as testament to that. And UB40 for that matter. And Enter Shikari (initally).

And so if piracy does eventually kill all music, and we lose prog as it stands now, nobody will mourn us, they'll just move onto Playstation games or whatever else costs "too much". Then we'll just start again.

And by the way, I buy ALL my downloaded music, my CD's, my sample CD's, my music software and all my plug-ins. I have the reciepts, the free updates and online support to prove it. I believe it's good Karma. And it's all tax deductible.

But I suspect I'm in the minority of the musicians reading this who do.

So who's the fool? Me or you?

QED.

source: http://birdiesong.wordpress.com/2007/06/08/jem-godfrey-cake-or-death/

Any reactions?

[PH]

I love his rants.

How's that for a reaction?

[Nicky007]

JG made a helluva lot of money producing bullshit pop. So it's easy enough for him to talk about having a Plan B. He's not the one who has to go to the local stores with his hat in his hand and beg for a job to pay his bills. He has a name that spells producing any other megabuck bullshit pop album. Not everybody, e.g. not Clive, is willing to compromise himself like that.

On the other hand, while Frost* is a decent effort, Clive's musical talent towers lightyears above Jem's.

I suggest that Jem use some of his business talent to help pay Clive's bills.

It all boils down to the age-old maxim that real artists remain poor, as only a small section of any population wants quality culture.

As you can see, JG is not the only one who can rant.

Nicky.

[bellanova]

Totally agree Nicky. Real talent counts for nothing nowadays although bands like Porcupine Tree and Dream Theater are doing OK. I mean DT are even doing Wembley in the autumn where all the big names play.

I think we need a big prog festival where all prog fans can get together and hear each others bands and then increase their following. Thats what i did. Heard one band and then looked outwards. Im sure alot of youngsters if they listened to prog might like it. Or are we really that weird.

As for Jem, i loved Frost* but its not his real job! If thats all he did he'd have more reason to rant, but whats he doing about it.....just churning out more rubbish to line his own pockets which i understand but it doesnt help the situation as a whole!!

[The Butterfly Man]

Im sure alot of youngsters if they listened to prog might like it. Or are we really that weird.

I'm young and I like prog. How's that for a start!?

However, I'm not that weird (or am I? )...

Tom

[Nicky007]

I think we need a big prog festival where all prog fans can get together and hear each others bands and then increase their following.

That's what the Headway Festival was about, this Easter in Amstelveen. It was great, man. The bands were Redemption, Zero Hour, Sun Caged, and several other less known excellent bands. They all played their heads off, knowing that the audience were real proggies. Problem, however: We were only 80-150 guests. And Headway wasn't new, this was the fifth annual Festival in a row.

Nicky.

[Clive]

Well.... I wouldnt expect anything else in a JG rant...
He's got a good point though.... music is an evolution.... things will change, and thats the way it goes...

Maybe that also spells the end for Bagpipes and Fender Rhodes Pianos .... some pet dislikes there (sorry if you like them!)...

On a personal note its not the 'prog music' that actually earns me much money.... I do it because I choose to: for me, it wasnt a quick experient in 'button pushing'.
I've no doubt 'progressive/symphonic rock' will survive.... my original point was to suggest we make the most of certain bands while they are around.
Bands that have managed to exist for more than, say... a year perhaps?......

[JJ II]

Okay, Clive,... I think you cán make more money out of us. The small following of loyal fas will be ready to take out their purses for say... contagion - the max, or a live album or a good shirts.

Another example: when I was at the Threshold-gig, I planned to buy several things, among them the new Damian album, some old Threshold albums, atc. But they didn't have any, because of several reasons (troubles with delivery, record companies, etc.).
I suggested to Karl that the really should release a live album (or even better, a DVD) with Damian! He was not sure if they could work things out, because of the copyrights, etc.

That's why I said: why don't you guys join forces? If there was a company that would combine It Bites, Theshold, Landmarq, Pendragon, Jadis, etc, etc. They could do combined adverts in big magazines, they could create good BIG online prog-shop (where I would buy more than I normally do, like "oh, I only wanted to buy the new Damian, but now I see the new It Bites has been released as well").

At this very moment everybody is struggling with websites, getting tours organised (with sometimes lousy supports!), getting shirts printed in a good design and quality. Every band is trying to invent the same old wheel again over and over again. So much energy lost, so much lack of power as the result. Some of the aforementioned bands have signed other label, that had the facilities to create combined forces, but as a result lots of money has remained in Germany 

[bluepony]

Contagion - the Max - YES!!!!! I haven't given up hope that it may happen in this life... 

[bellanova]

I'd go for that too now although i have all the extra songs in the right places on my media player. Cant listen though because my speakers dont work anymore!

[bluepony]

I made two CDs with the songs in the right order and keep playing them over and over, but it sure would be nice to get the 'real thing'... maybe a limited collector's edition... Could anybody tell that I'm desperately trying to spend some money here? 

[johninblack]

Could anybody tell that I'm desperately trying to spend some money here? 

Really? But then we'll all grab The Max the moment it's released.....Wouldn't we?

[bluepony]

... we'll all grab The Max the moment it's released.....Wouldn't we?

Hope so!! 

[PH]

Of course we'll do!

I'll buy it right from the release!
And if Clive and Co will rerelease the Shadowland albums, I'll be happy to buy them! As it seems that they're out of print...

[bluepony]

I have all three Shadowland albums, Paco. 
(Sorry, I just HAD to say it.)

[PH]

I have all three Shadowland albums, Paco. 
(Sorry, I just HAD to say it.)

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

I'll pay you a visit when you're off in your car listening to Ayreon.

[Stuart]

Well, getting personal and lashing out at another artist with no real information to back up your comments 'aint going to solve anything, and I'm sure certainly wasn't the reason Clive started this thread.

If anyone wants to rant at JG, head over to the FROST* forum and do it there where at least he has the chance to reply.

OK back to what Clive started this thread for. We've all (mostly) got spare cash and more than willing to pass it Arena's way, just give us the goods to buy with it.

[PH]

Well, getting personal and lashing out at another artist with no real information to back up your comments 'aint going to solve anything, and I'm sure certainly wasn't the reason Clive started this thread.

Don't take it that way, we're not angry or anything!
Besides, with all respect, what's Jem doing?

You often have to take Jem's rants with a piece of salt. (or is that a typical Dutch saying?)

If anyone wants to rant at JG, head over to the FROST* forum and do it there where at least he has the chance to reply.

No need to I think. Prog concerns all of us.

[johninblack]

If anyone wants to rant at JG, head over to the FROST* forum and do it there where at least he has the chance to reply.

It's HERE Jem's always up for an exchange of views

[PH]

On the subject matter (sort of):

John Wesley (known as the Porcupine Tree additional guitarist, backing vocalist and singer-songwriter) is giving away most of his discography as a free download.
http://www.myspace.com/johnwesleymusic
(look on the left)

I'd say check it out, it's quite interesting music.

But is this the way to do it??
I don't think so, actually, but who knows...

[Stuart]

You often have to take Jem's rants with a piece of salt. (or is that a typical Dutch saying?)

Yes 'pinch' of salt translates well, and anyone who knows Jem knows he never takes himself too seriously anyway.

[bluepony]

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

I'll pay you a visit when you're off in your car listening to Ayreon.

Feel free to visit me anytime! 

[Nicky007]

Paco's movin into shadowland for real here.

Nicky.