Manatee

[Manatee]

I have and have liked too much music to list it all.  A lot of what I have is on vinyl and boxed up since I haven't had a working turntable in a long time.  There are some things I didn't even remember I had (like Van Der Graaf Generator) until I started poking around on some review sites.  Anyway, here is some of what I like, but it's nowhere close to everything.  Oh yeah, besides what I list below, I like Arena too.

My favorite bands/performers ever:  (some of my favorites of their albums in parens)

Genesis (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound) – Still loved em with Phil until he caught the pop bug, but the Peter era is my favorite.
Peter Gabriel (3rd and 4th albums flawless IMO) - included in Genesis, but his first 4 solos are so good and so different from Genesis that he needs his own mention here
R.E.M. (Murmur, Reckoning, Fables of the Reconstruction, Automatic for the People)
Sugar/Bob Mould (every last scrap of it – maybe Copper Blue if I were to pick one album)

More music I like a whole lot (again no particular order and not a complete list of their good albums):

IQ (Tales from the Lush Attic, The Wake) - probably belong on the list above, but I won't move them there until I complete my collection
Neil Young (Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, Mirror Ball)
Jethro Tull (Thick as a Brick, Songs from the Wood, Aqualung, Minstrel in the Gallery, Bursting Out - my favorite live album by anyone)
Pearl Jam (Ten, vs.)
Talking Heads (More Songs About Building and Food, Remain in Light)
Weezer ("the blue album," "the green album")
The Replacements (Tim)
Kansas (Leftoverture, Point of Know Return) - my first favorite band once I started buying my own music, don't listen to them so much anymore, but they still deserve mention
Soul Asylum (Hang Time, Grave Dancers Union)
Pink Floyd (Wish You Were Here, The Wall)
The Who (Quadrophenia, Who's Next)
The Rolling Stones (Some Girls, Exile on Main St.)
Led Zeppelin (Houses of the Holy, 4th album – really could pick any of them)
Belly (King)
Buffalo Tom (Big Red Letter Day)
Pixies (Doolittle)
Hole (Live Through This, Celebrity Skin)
Nirvana (Nevermind, In Utero)
Lacuna Coil (don't own any of their albums yet but will probably have them all pretty soon)
Cowboy Junkies (Black Eyed Man)
Muddy Waters (Hard Again, but really anything he did)
The Afghan Whigs (Gentlemen)
Gentle Giant (Freehand, In a Glass House)
Marillion (Script for a Jester's Tear, Fugazi)
Yes (Close to the Edge, Going for the One)
Supertramp (Crime of the Century) – perhaps the worst name for a band ever, maybe it was a joke?
Hot Tuna (First Pull Up, Then Pull Down; Burgers)
Soundgarden (Superunknown)
Alice in Chains (Dirt)
Frank Zappa (Apostrophe)
Grateful Dead (Working Man's Dead, American Beauty)
The Band (The Last Waltz)
UK (UK)
Roxy Music (Siren, Avalon)
801 (801 Live)
Twelfth Night (Live and Let Live)

Lately I'm also liking the "symphonic black" bands although I haven't bought any albums yet.  I particularly like the ones with angelic female vocals.  Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt.

I'll probably add more to the list later as I think of it, but the above should be enough to start talking about.

-Manatee

[PH]

Impressive list!

I'm going to sleep right now, but tomorrow I'll make a reply to this, because I have a few questions for you.

-Paco

[Nicky007]

Thanks, Manatee, for this very detailed list. It does give a very clear picture of your musical tastes.

You did add the disclaimer that you hadnt listed all your fave albums, but still it struck me that Dark Side Of The Moon, Zep 1-3, and Abbey Road were missing. These are in my mind masterpieces.

I can see that you havent really entered progmetal space yet. Dream Theater is an absolute MUST - yeah, everything they do is filled with magic, and you even live next door to them - and else for starters there's the wonderful melodic, but also harddriving, Ten; Circus Maximus, who are close to DT; Kamelot, who are more heavy and earthy, at least lately; Tool, who take off from Pink Floyd, but go into all sorts of terra incognito; just to name some of the best.

But of course we roomies are very individualised in our tastes - and that's great - so you'l get an entirely different serving from e.g. Paco.

Iac welcome to the world of prog, Manatee !  You neednt be bored one second 

Great to see another "oldie" (trying to rejuvenate myself with eight years) 

Nicky.

[Bupie]

Lately I'm also liking the "symphonic black" bands although I haven't bought any albums yet.  I particularly like the ones with angelic female vocals.  Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt.

I am surprised that Nicky didn't react to the"angelic female vocals" mention 

[Nicky007]

Women singers are your department, Bups. I'm sure that even if we got Bluey singing for you, you would sit there dewy-eyed 

Nicky.

[Bupie]

Women singers are your department, Bups. I'm sure that even if we got Bluey singing for you, you would sit there dewy-eyed 

Nicky.

I surely would be happy to see Bluey, singing or not, but I have not the slightest idea of what "dewy-eyed" means ...

[PH]

But of course we roomies are very individualised in our tastes - and that's great - so you'l get an entirely different serving from e.g. Paco.

Well, I CERTAINLY agree with you on Dream Theater! That music is brilliant!
And Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon, that's classic, every proggy should like it (even if you haven't heard it properly yet (like me )).
Even Ten and I think Circus Maximus are bands that I would recommend. I haven't heard much of Ten, but I like what I DID hear!! And I've head samples of Circus Maximus: very promising. But there are so many bands that it's almost impossible to keep up.
I'm going for quality-discovering instead of quantity-discovering, which means that I want to listen, analyse, "feel" a band or album, before I go to the next discovery.

But here are the questions that I want to ask you, Manatee!

Genesis (Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound) – Still loved em with Phil until he caught the pop bug, but the Peter era is my favorite.

Here's another Genesis fan! I'm possibly the youngest Genesis fan here! I like all albums, but my favourites are Foxtrot, Selling England, The Lamb, A Trick Of The Tail, Wind And Wuthering and Duke.

Peter Gabriel (3rd and 4th albums flawless IMO) - included in Genesis, but his first 4 solos are so good and so different from Genesis that he needs his own mention here

Can you please open a topic about Peter Gabriel? (Or "re-open", depends on wether there's already a topic or not, I didn't check.)
The songs that I heard were so different from Genesis, that I hesitated to try an album. Maybe you can specify why the albums are so good.

IQ (Tales from the Lush Attic, The Wake) - probably belong on the list above, but I won't move them there until I complete my collection

You really should hear Seventh House and Dark Matter, they're brilliant!

Jethro Tull (Thick as a Brick, Songs from the Wood, Aqualung, Minstrel in the Gallery, Bursting Out - my favorite live album by anyone)

Again, can you tell me more about this band? I've heard many good things about them, but not yet FROM them.

Kansas (Leftoverture, Point of Know Return) - my first favorite band once I started buying my own music, don't listen to them so much anymore, but they still deserve mention

See above...

-Paco

[johninblack]

You really should hear Seventh House and Dark Matter, they're brilliant!

Yep, spot on Paco, absolutely superb albums well worth buying.

Welcome aboard Manatee.

[Manatee]

You did add the disclaimer that you hadnt listed all your fave albums, but still it struck me that Dark Side Of The Moon, Zep 1-3, and Abbey Road were missing. These are in my mind masterpieces.

I can see that you havent really entered progmetal space yet. Dream Theater is an absolute MUST - yeah, everything they do is filled with magic, and you even live next door to them - and else for starters there's the wonderful melodic, but also harddriving, Ten; Circus Maximus, who are close to DT; Kamelot, who are more heavy and earthy, at least lately; Tool, who take off from Pink Floyd, but go into all sorts of terra incognito; just to name some of the best.

Nicky,

Yep, I wasn't kidding that it was just "some" of my faves.  Absolutely I could have listed Dark Side too, no question it's brilliant.  And there are no wrong Zeppelin albums.  My favorite song of theirs is probably Dazed and Confused, from Zep 1.  As for the Beatles, they never really excited me, maybe just because they've been getting played all over the place for pretty much my whole life.  I hear them often enough without trying to.

You're right that I haven't heard much prog metal.  To be honest, it wouldn't have occurred to me until recently that there was such a thing, although the music matters more than the label.  I'm still working on DT -- so far my impression is that the playing is excellent but I'm not crazy about the vocals.  Like bluepony said about the Vanden Plas singer in another topic, it's all personal taste, but some singers just strike you wrong (or right).  I do like Tool and have a couple of their albums (Undertow and Aenima).  I haven't heard the other bands (well one song from Kamelot on Pandora last night but not enough to decide if I like them), but I'll check them out.  I've also heard a handful of Threshold songs -- one (Elusive) I like a lot but was bummed to hear some grunts thrown in for no apparent reason.  Is there a topic where grunts are discussed?  I'm really puzzled by those and would like to hear what other folks have to say about them.

Great to see another "oldie" (trying to rejuvenate myself with eight years)   

We're not old, we're "classic."   

Paco,

I'd say that if you add Nursery Cryme, you've listed all the prime Genesis albums, although I might toss in Trespass too.  It has a murkier sound than the later albums, but I still like it, especially the Knife and White Mountain.

I'll be more than happy to talk about PG's solo stuff -- if there isn't a topic, we'll make one.  Briefly, I'd say his stuff is much less symphonic than Genesis, is much less keyboard-oriented, and often has very heavy, unusual percussion, sometimes even with an African flavor.  He also changes style from album to album and even sometimes from song to song.  It's not guaranteed that a Genesis fan will love PG solo stuff since it's so different, but I do.
I must say that after the 5th solo album he seemed to stray into areas that I didn't find so interesting, but I really should give that stuff more of a chance one of these days.

Re: IQ, I'll be getting all their albums   What happened with them was this:  I discovered them through a college radio station that had a prog show.  I bought Lush Attic and The Wake and loved them.  Then, at about the same time, I moved out of range of that radio station and I got Nomzamo, which I found disappointing (apologies to Bupie).  So...I lost track of the band and didn't know Peter Nicholls was back.  I've now heard enough from of all the newer albums that I'm satisfied they need to be owned.  Subterranea came a couple weeks ago and has taken up residence in my car alongside Pepper's Ghost.  Ever is on order, and the others will follow, maybe even the Menel stuff -- it's not bad, just different.

Jethro Tull: wow, they definitely rate a topic of their own if there isn't one.  IMO they deserve to be listed among the fathers of prog along with Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, etc.  They've been around since the dawn of time with lots of personnel changes.  Ian Anderson is the core and probably the only one who's been there for everything.  He's a mad genius type who does vocals and a lot of flute.  I think they actually started as sort of a folk-jazz band, although they evolved from that pretty quickly.  To me, they've always had a bit of a medieval feel, partly because of Anderson's voice and maybe due to the choice of instruments (not much in the way of synths or modern-sounding keys).  They're not as keyboard-heavy as Genesis or Yes, although they do have some usually.  IMO, Thick as a Brick is their masterpiece, but it might not be the place to go for a first taste of them since it's all one song (well, technically 2 but only because you had to flip a record over in those days).  Aqualung is probably their most famous album (and the title track the most famous song).  I think the band still exists in some form, but their stuff I know best is what they did in the '70s.

Kansas: More "American" sounding than most older progs bands I can think of (not surprising since they're American and most of the others I know are British).  The use a lot of violin (maybe I should call it "fiddle" in their case) but not in a classical-sounding way.  A lot of pretty vocals but not experimental-sounding like Gentle Giant is.  I guess I'd say they focus more on melodies and less on impressive instrumentation than most other classic prog bands (not to say they can't play or the others don't have good melodies, but I think that's what stands out).  I'm having a little more trouble describing them than the others because, as I said, I haven't really listened to them much recently.  I have nothing of theirs on CD -- maybe I should fix that.


Everyone - thanks for the recommendations and the welcome!  I'll see you all around the Room.

[Bupie]

Re: IQ, I'll be getting all their albums   What happened with them was this:  I discovered them through a college radio station that had a prog show.  I bought Lush Attic and The Wake and loved them.  Then, at about the same time, I moved out of range of that radio station and I got Nomzamo, which I found disappointing (apologies to Bupie).  So...I lost track of the band and didn't know Peter Nicholls was back.  I've now heard enough from of all the newer albums that I'm satisfied they need to be owned.  Subterranea came a couple weeks ago and has taken up residence in my car alongside Pepper's Ghost.  Ever is on order, and the others will follow, maybe even the Menel stuff -- it's not bad, just different.

No offense ... and I am starting to get used to the other roomies criticism    But I won't change my avatar anyway because I still do think that Are you Sitting Comfortably is one of the best albums that I own (and I think I own more than 500 now) and BY FAR my favorite IQ album. Nomzamo is a step behind, I admit.

Kansas: More "American" sounding than most older progs bands I can think of (not surprising since they're American and most of the others I know are British).  The use a lot of violin (maybe I should call it "fiddle" in their case) but not in a classical-sounding way.  A lot of pretty vocals but not experimental-sounding like Gentle Giant is.  I guess I'd say they focus more on melodies and less on impressive instrumentation than most other classic prog bands (not to say they can't play or the others don't have good melodies, but I think that's what stands out).  I'm having a little more trouble describing them than the others because, as I said, I haven't really listened to them much recently.  I have nothing of theirs on CD -- maybe I should fix that.

Yes, maybe. Everything from their debut to Vinyl Confessions is highly recommendable (this last one being much more AOR than prog, though). Then Kerry Livgren letf and they released a bunch of really terrible albums    Somewhere to Elsewhere saw the return of Livgren and good music. I recommend this one too. I could discuss for hours about Kansas, you know

[marcello]

That is a lovley diverse list Manatee

I am in love with IQ right now 

[Nicky007]

I'm going for quality-discovering instead of quantity-discovering, which means that I want to listen, analyse, "feel" a band or album, before I go to the next discovery.

Excellent, Paco 

Nicky.

[Manatee]

Nicky's inspired me to update this thread, although I'm not going to edit my original list because a) it would hurt my head and b) I intentionally set it up as a representative sample of my tastes and not an exhaustive list of everything I liked.  That said, a few additions seem warranted.


As before, I'm not going to mention every good album I think the band ever did, just listing a couple of highlights for each.

Porcupine Tree (Deadwing - IMO one of the best albums ever period, Nil Recurring, Warszawa)

Devin Townsend (Terria, Ocean Machine, really I think every album he's done under his own name other than the ambient experiments is essential)

Gazpacho (Night, Tick-Tock)

Kamelot (Black Halo, Ghost Opera)

King Crimson (Red, more on the way if the store didn't mess up)

Kate Bush (not new to me, but I notice she wasn't mentioned the first time, and she's Kate Bush - The Dreaming, The Kick Inside)

h-era Marillion  (Afraid of Sunlight - I'm sold on this one, so I'm getting there, guys)

Kino (Picture, that's all there is, right?)

Nightwish (Dark Passion Play -- I really like this album a lot, and I like the new vocalist better than Tarja -- not that Tarja is bad)

Riverside (still only 3 studio albums in North America, so consider them all listed -- Steve may have overstated the case when he said Rapid Eye Movement is the finest round thing on the planet that's not actually a biscuit but not by so very much)

Blackfield (Blackfield, II is on order)

Catherine Wheel (Chrome, Ferment -- again not new to me, but they're worth adding to the list)

Opeth (Damnation, Watershed -- still lots left to try by these guys)

Golden Palominos (Visions of Excess, Pure)

Frost* (Milliontown, haven't heard #2 yet -- I considered not mentioning them because of all the annoying vocal effects, but the music itself is top-notch, and it's got John Mitchell in it)

Martin Orford (The Old Road, Classical Music and Popular Songs)


Other comments:

I now have all the main studio releases by Arena (which is rather difficult to do, it turns out), so I can say that my faves (at least for now) are Pepper's Ghost and The Visitor.

I did get some Lacuna Coil although not the complete catalog yet.  In a Reverie is probably my favorite album of theirs.  And Cristina should still do vocals on every album by anyone.

I got all the post-Menel studio albums by IQ.  Still only have the pre-Menels and Nomzamo (Menel-era) on vinyl, need to do something about that.  Maybe I'll even get myself a copy of Are You Seated Comfortably? for myself as a gift to Bupie on his next birthday.   

As before, I still haven't mentioned all the bands I like, and not appearing here doesn't mean I think something is unworthy -- just didn't come to mind at this moment.

[PH]

Impressive!

... Deadwing - IMO one of the best albums ever period ...

Can't agree often enough.

Kino (Picture, that's all there is, right?)

Well, not really. There is a VERY limited cd (in fact, it's sold out...) with demos and live tracks. Very interesting! No new studio album (yet) though... Unfortunately...

Blackfield (Blackfield, II is on order)

Good boy.

Frost* (Milliontown, haven't heard #2 yet -- I considered not mentioning them because of all the annoying vocal effects, but the music itself is top-notch, and it's got John Mitchell in it)

Good grief! You just can't get away with that Manny! Get Experiments In Mass Appeal, it's EXCELLENT!

Other than that, nice list!

-Paco

[Manatee]

Good grief! You just can't get away with that Manny! Get Experiments In Mass Appeal, it's EXCELLENT!

Yeah, I expect I'll get around to ordering that one.  After all, it's got John Mitchell in it.   

[Bupie]

Nicky's inspired me to update this thread, although I'm not going to edit my original list because a) it would hurt my head and b) I intentionally set it up as Gazpacho (Night, Tick-Tock)

I'd like to try but I read that they are clones of H' Marillion, so ... 

Kamelot (Black Halo, Ghost Opera)

King Crimson (Red, more on the way if the store didn't mess up)

I need to try both of them, especially KC. I was surprised by DT's cover of Lars Tongue ... I didn't think that KC had so heavy songs in their catalog

Nightwish (Dark Passion Play -- I really like this album a lot, and I like the new vocalist better than Tarja -- not that Tarja is bad)

  

I now have all the main studio releases by Arena (which is rather difficult to do, it turns out), so I can say that my faves (at least for now) are Pepper's Ghost and The Visitor.

Contagion didn't grip you ?

I got all the post-Menel studio albums by IQ.  Still only have the pre-Menels and Nomzamo (Menel-era) on vinyl, need to do something about that.  Maybe I'll even get myself a copy of Are You Seated Comfortably? for myself as a gift to Bupie on his next birthday.   

 Thanks, I appreciate but don't butcher the title of this great album, please 

[Manatee]

I'd like to try but I read that they are clones of H' Marillion, so ... 

I read something about them originally being members of the Marillion fan club, but I really don't think they sound like Marillion (either version) at all.  Frankly, even though I'm beginning to acquire the taste for h-Marillion, I find Gazpacho better -- at least Night and Tick-Tock.   I haven't heard their earlier albums, and consensus seems to be these last two are by far their best.

Contagion didn't grip you ?

Of course it did.  Contagion's a great album; I just find those other two slightly greater -- for me a few of Contagion's songs are, while not just filler, perhaps not quite not up to the standard of the rest of the songs, probably because they were written to complete parts of the album's concept.  Nevertheless, it's excellent, and I wouldn't be disappointed if the new album is of similar quality.

Thanks, I appreciate but don't butcher the title of this great album, please 

Abject apologies.  I am old and forgetful, so one must make allowances.   

[aswas]

Nightwish has written some good material. I purchased the End of an Era DVD, and it is a great one. Lots of energy and emotion.

[Nicky007]

Male vocals are fine too, as long as they don't grunt.

You really have to get over that, Greenie  

There are so many excellent albums with growl !

I find Gazpacho better

I do too 

... and quite different 

Nicky.

[Manatee]

You really have to get over that, Greenie  

There are so many excellent albums with growl !

Well, I can get past it if it's in moderation and the rest of the music is excellent -- Opeth for example.  Peter Gabriel actually does it in one song (Moribund the Burgermeister), although in that case it fits because it's essentially used for comic effect and to define the character he's playing.  On the whole though, I still find it offputting.  There are times for special effects, but for a steady diet, I prefer actual singing.

[Nicky007]

Well, as long as you keep exploring, you'l get there, Greenie. (Even Deenie has started growling when he reads the Room posts.) 

I was also turned off by growl and shout for a long time, but then when I was gripped by the splendor of Ghost Reveries, I realised that I had to take the growl in stride  

Now I take it just as easily as clean vocals. I prefer variation tho, not non-stop growl.

Many metal groups with young musicians seem to get stuck in the rut of growl, and the instrumentalists can't stop banging around; then it gets monotonous  

Nicky.

[Deenfan]

Iggy... you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

What on earth is the point of forcing oneself to get so used to something horrid, that you actually start - in an automatic act of self-perseverance - to nurture the delusion that you can appreciate it? This is like a variation on the Stockholm syndrome or the mechanism behind the fact that people in child welfare and police having to deal with child pornography aquire a taste for the material they are required to study in depth. Ugly comparison, but no uglier than growling. I have hereby proven that beginning to aquire a taste for something you originally found bad, doesn't mean it is, has become, has ever been, or will ever be good. Growling is, has always been, and will always be, idiotic and non-brilliant.

Don't tell me there is a reward in there, more substantial than the ones you miss by spending all this time and energy on things you don't like when there is still so many things up your alley, that you haven't had the time to embrace yet!

Growling etc. can be tolerated if it isn't a bigger factor than it is in Ayreon, for instance. And even there, all the songs would be better off without.

[Nicky007]

Iggy... you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

Not iggy = Nicky  

you are really convinced it is a virtue to like as many different things as possible, even in art?

Yup, "the more you love music, the more music you love".

I'l try to explain: I have a very dynamic attitude toward music; I like to get shaken, kicked (just not in the b*s), yanked, ripped etc. The music I love most is mainly such music that gives me a rough ride. To me that's the whole idea of "progressive".

OK, one can also go beyond "music". E.g. Dillinger Escape Plan are often venturing there. Then it gets more (intellectually) interesting than (emotionally) enjoyable.

But all that stuff that Cap wrote a couple of years ago about DT (remember) ... that's me  

Growling is, has always been, and will always be, idiotic and non-brilliant.

Not more than living in a cold, dark, remote fjord with the goats  

Nicky.

[Deenfan]

  I have hardly ever seen a goat. Did I call you Iggy, btw?!  Bloody hell, I get so upset about this horrible-noise-can-really-be-wonderful-sound stuff that I lose all sense of identity...

I prefer to listen to music I like. I haven't got time to listen to all the things I like anyway, so why pile up a lot of horse shit just to miss even more good music? Some new ground is being broken every now and again when something a bit different is introduced as an element in otherwise recognisable and enjoyable music. Just as often, the weird element is just weird and gets more irritating over time. Trumpets in metal, for instance. Not a good idea.

[Manatee]

Well, as long as you keep exploring, you'l get there, Greenie. (Even Deenie has started growling when he reads the Room posts.) 

I was also turned off by growl and shout for a long time, but then when I was gripped by the splendor of Ghost Reveries, I realised that I had to take the growl in stride 

Now I take it just as easily as clean vocals. I prefer variation tho, not non-stop growl.

Many metal groups with young musicians seem to get stuck in the rut of growl, and the instrumentalists can't stop banging around; then it gets monotonous 

Nicky.

I have hardly ever seen a goat. Did I call you Iggy, btw?!  Bloody hell, I get so upset about this horrible-noise-can-really-be-wonderful-sound stuff that I lose all sense of identity...

I prefer to listen to music I like. I haven't got time to listen to all the things I like anyway, so why pile up a lot of horse shit just to miss even more good music? Some new ground is being broken every now and again when something a bit different is introduced as an element in otherwise recognisable and enjoyable music. Just as often, the weird element is just weird and gets more irritating over time. Trumpets in metal, for instance. Not a good idea.

On the whole, I lean toward Deenfan's position here.  If the music is extraordinary, I'll give it a chance despite the presence of non-singing singing, but given a choice between two groups that interest me equally except that one sings and one grunts/growls, I'll take the singers every time.  I doubt I'll ever view the grunting as a viable substitute for real singing.  It can be gotten used to, but at the least, that's one feature of the music that won't be there for me to enjoy (vocals).