Which groups are prog?

[bluepony]

Du veräppelst mich, Bluey.
Nicky.

Nur, wenn du darauf bestehst! 

[bluepony]

Because Mars is for men. I'll be protected there.

That's what YOU think... 

Instead of bullshitting (or -fighting) around, Bluey, how about dropping your votes?

Hey, watch your language! 
Thought I had already contributed my share... ah well!

[Nicky007]

I'd particularly like to hear your takes on the Floyd guys' soloalbums. Are they good? Are they prog? I could imagine that there are more Venus energies there, IAC by Dave and Rick, than Mars energies.

Nicky.

[bluepony]

Definitely prog

Well, since you already declared them as "definitely prog", no votes needed here I think.

Candidates

Amorphis - growls turned into something you can actually listen to - is that prog? 
Anathema - see Amorphis
Angra  2 - hmmm... hard one... probably yes
Blind Ego  1 - I'd say yes
Blind Guardian  1 - undecided...  
Dark Tranquillity - their later albums have prog elements...
Faith No More - come on! NO!!
The Gathering 1 - nope (sorry!)
Korn I wouldn't say so - new metal more like!
Landmarq  2 yep
Led Zeppelin  1 
Paradise Lost I love them, but they're certainly not prog!
Queens Of The Stone Age  1 nah!
Royal Hunt  1- you must be kidding!
Saga  1 maybe...
Savatage well, if Saga are prog, then Savatage must be too...
Tomorrow's Eve  1 if this is the band I remember: prog elements, but not pure prog

The others I either don't know or don't know well enough to vote.

[bluepony]

I'd particularly like to hear your takes on the Floyd guys' soloalbums. Are they good? Are they prog? I could imagine that there are more Venus energies there, IAC by Dave and Rick, than Mars energies.

You'll probably get your bullfighters sword out now, Nicky, and slap me on the head with it, but I must admit that I'm not into Pink Floyd AT ALL... (although I did some translations for a PF fan mag... strange world, this!)

[Nicky007]

Well, since you already declared them as "definitely prog", no votes needed here I think.

That doesn't mean that they're definitely "definitely prog" yet, Bluey. Any objections to this list?

Thanks for your votes and comments re the candidates.

I think that we can now do the following:

Angra and Landmarq get promoted to the prog list.

Amorphis, Faith No More, and Korn go to "not prog".

Blind Ego, Saga, and Savatage get an extra vote.

I don't wanna send Anathema and Paradise Lost into the dark yet, because I consider that their later albums could possibly be classified as prog. Any opins on this matter?

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

... I must admit that I'm not into Pink Floyd AT ALL....

I thought we were friends, Bluey, in some sense of the word. But now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nicky007]

I just brought Gazpacho into the mix. I don't expect it to be too hard to get them on the prog list.

And how about Peter Gabriel?

Votes and comments please.

Nicky.

[PH]

Although Gazpacho's Night was indeed prog. The other albums clearly not.
Don't know what to do with it.

Peter Gabriel. With Genesis he was the one who made it prog, but solo he is as much prog as Phil Collins is...

[Nicky007]

BTW CP's are Clever Proggies 

Nicky.

[bluepony]

That doesn't mean that they're definitely "definitely prog" yet, Bluey. Any objections to this list?

I would let you know if I had any objections... 

I don't wanna send Anathema and Paradise Lost into the dark yet, because I consider that their later albums could possibly be classified as prog. Any opins on this matter?

Well, I don't consider them as real 'prog' bands, although they made quite some progress within their genre. However, 'Gothic rock' would probably be a much better label for both of them.

[Peter]

Anathema is....noise.

[Nicky007]

Hey, but Cap, *^`?=)(¤#, listen to A Natural Disaster, it's completely different, more like Radiohead, quiet, atmospheric.

If there's a band that's changed, it's Anathema.

Nicky.

[bluepony]

Anathema is....noise.

It used to be, in their early days, but I think that's changed some time ago. You should really give it another try, you might like what they're doing now! 

[bellanova]

No mention of John Young here. He considers himself to be a prog rocker and many of his songs are certainly of this genre. I wonder how many of you actually knowof him and his music. He is a singer/songwriter but has played with John Wetton and Carl Palmer in Qango and also has his own band, The John Young Band. He definately has my vote plus hes a very nice guy. And i more than sort of know him! But thats another story. i consider him a mate! If you have heard him, give him a listen. He has a website with soundbites on it.

[Nicky007]

Fine, Bella, I've included John Young on the candidate list with one vote.

You might like to give your votes to some further artists on the list, and maybe you can even name some more that aren't listed.

It's going a bit slow with our poll - I guess roomies are anarchists by nature - but I'll keep prodding people.

Nicky.

[maddox]

Anathema is....noise.

We should have another section then: The progressive noise-section. 

Anathema - 1

[bluepony]

We should have another section then: The progressive noise-section. 

Korn could be in that section... 

[Nicky007]

Korn have a section for themselves, nothin like'm.

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

OK, let's sum up what we have about the Floyd guys' soloalbums:

Mr. John In Black:  The Pink Floyd Dudes - As a whole, [prog,] of course, but as individuals the waters are muddied somewhat! I would be inclined to say that their work as a collective is far too Prog for their solo material not to be, but you could equally argue that none of them are Prog as solo acts. Gilmour solo, Prog but could easily be described as being AOR or even Soft Rock. The other two I own nothing from so i'm going only by memory, and i've had quite a few sessions on the Ale since then but heard enough to say Yes you could call them Prog, but as with Gilmour other 'Tags' could fit.

Mr. Paco Lientje:  I only heard Gilmour's solo material and although I REALLY like it, I think it's no prog.
As for the others, I don't know, but I've heard that they aren't really prog either.

Mr. Mad Dox:  Pink Floyd is prog. Period.
David Gilmour however is not. Not by a mile. Neither is Richard Wright, though very enjoyable. I do consider Roger Water as prog though.

Mr. Nicky 007:  To me Roger and Dave have the prog blood rushing through them, so regardless of what they're up to, it's prog, like with Clive. Rick is maybe not as prog as his pals, but still I would classify him prog rather than soft rock.

As you can see, the opinions here differ greatly, so it would be good to have some more contributions. Guys, please!

John, I got your joke about the muddy waters, but I didn't get what you meant with "i've had quite a few sessions on the Ale since then ...."

Nicky.

[johninblack]

John, I got your joke about the muddy waters, but I didn't get what you meant with "i've had quite a few sessions on the Ale since then ...."

The other two I own nothing from so i'm going only by memeory, and i've had quite a few sessions on the Ale since then but heard enough to say Yes you could call them Prog, but as with Gilmour other 'Tags' could fit.

Excessive consumption of alcohol has long been associated with memory loss, hence the expression I used meaning that what memories I have of what i've heard could be somewhat muddied by time.......thats all!

I thought the mudding the waters bit was really bloody clever


Oh yeah......back from Summers End, it were a bit good it were!

[Nicky007]

OK, let's sum up what we have about the Floyd guys' soloalbums: ....

Come on guys, it can't be that on the biggest Arena chat forum there are only four guys who have delved into the world of Floyd + sideprojects 

Nicky.

[maddox]

Come on guys, it can't be that on the biggest Arena chat forum there are only four guys who have delved into the world of Floyd + sideprojects 

Nicky.

Like i already said, i don't consider Gilmour's and Wright's solo stuff as prog. It holds too much mellow elements in it to describe it as prog.
Roger Water's stuff has those moments too but on a far lesser scale. You can listen to each and every solo album of him and it actually does sound like Floyd when he was still a member of it.
The early stuff of Floyd, with Syd Barret, isn't really typical prog too but from Dark Side onward it in my opinion is. Nowadays i frequently play albums like Meddle, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Final Cut for instance. Great work, every one of them.  Funny thing is, when i first began listen to stuff like Floyd, Genesis and Marillion for instance, i always 'labelled' them as Symphonic Rock. Progressive Rock simply didn't exist for me and with Yes, the bands mentioned earlier were the four 'Dinosaurs' of Symphonic Rock music. It wasn't until later, far later i learned the many, very many diversities in prog/sympho/neo etc etc music.

Hope this helps. 

[Nicky007]

Funny thing is, when i first began listen to stuff like Floyd, Genesis and Marillion for instance, i always 'labelled' them as Symphonic Rock. Progressive Rock simply didn't exist for me and with Yes, the bands mentioned earlier were the four 'Dinosaurs' of Symphonic Rock music. It wasn't until later, far later i learned the many, very many diversities in prog/sympho/neo etc etc music.

Same here, apart from the "dinosaur" jive, which I'v never liked, because it gives me a picture of something oversized and lumbering.

I had a long period of "spirituality" (oh, wow man, big thing .... ok, back to normal mode) (1982-2002), where I was out of the rock beat. Before that, we were using the term "symphonic rock" about Floyd & Co., never "progressive" or "prog".

But I like the expression "prog", because it really means to me "breaking into new territory".


> Hope this helps. 

Yes, it does. Thanks, Maddox. Would be good to get some of the "sleeping dogs" up on their feet too though.

Nicky.

[Nicky007]

Interesting - from Wikipedia, AOR: "A broad cross section of rock music that gained popularity during this time [early 70's] came to be called Progressive Rock, likely because the wide recognition and success of artists could be attributed to airplay on Progressive [radio] stations; much the way the College Rock label was given to bands that received air play on student-run college stations during the 1980s."

Nicky.