Christian bands/christian accountable bands

[Nicky007]

Todays Western culture has got nothing to do with christianity anymore, more with Atheistic Humanism, while christianity takes a lot of influences from todays Western culture...

Paco, I would insist that Humanism is a consequence of Christianity. One of the things Christ says here and there is, that if you want to follow Me, you have to give up everything that binds you to mass culture, even - I think mainly as a thought provocation - your father, mother and spouse, and learn to rely on your own judgment - of course inspired by the Light of Christ, i.a. the Bible, which is a history and a compendium of human knowledge and wisdom.

Look at the world? Where do you find respect of the individual? - a vital principle of Humanism.

The atheists are also living by the Grace of God - only they dont acknowledge it !

Nicky.

[PH]

Paco, I would insist that Humanism is a consequence of Christianity.

I also think Humanism is a consequence of Christianity, but Humanism is risen to a whole new level of having it's own religion (sort of).
I'm not saying Humanism is bad, but more elements were added to it (everybody is his own god, you have to look for the good things in yourself, and more of that kind of things), so what do we need Christ for?

One of the things Christ says here and there is, that if you want to follow Me, you have to give up everything that binds you to mass culture

Is this why you chose to listen to prog rather than pop music, Nicky?
If you want to follow Jesus, you have to give up everything that leads you away from Gods will. Things that stand between you and God. If parents, friends or children (or ANYTHING!!) lead you away from the will of God, you have to give them up. Which doesn't mean you'll never see them anymore of course. Just that you don't participate when they do something against Gods will (like cursing, stealing, whatever). And to be honest I find this often very difficult.

learn to rely on your own judgment - of course inspired by the Light of Christ, i.a. the Bible

Are you sure it's not the other way round, Nicky? Can we rely on our own judgment? I think we should rely on the Bible and judge everything through that. I think this is a fundamental difference.
"Rely on your own judgment" sounds a lot like being your own god... And this is nothing more or less than Humanism with a Christian flavour.

the Bible, which is a history and a compendium of human knowledge and wisdom.

But above all: Gods Word! And I think the truth, that's why I am a Christian. The Quran is also history and a compendium of human knowledge and wisdom, so are the books of Buddah, Confusius, Hindu etc etc... Very interesting books and very good to take inspiration from. But not the truth!
Have you ever read the apocryphes, Nicky? And do you know why they are not accepted as canon in the Bible? I think they are very interesting and very inspirational, but not truth.

Look at the world? Where do you find respect of the individual? - a vital principle of Humanism.

Which is indeed already half of Jesus' summarized commandment.

The atheists are also living by the Grace of God - only they dont acknowledge it !

As long as you do good, you will make it... Yes, I've heard it all before. But I don't believe it.
Remember The Ministry Of Lost Souls, Nicky.
Do we need Christ? Or can we do without?

-Paco

[kmorse]

I'm finally back with my reading list for Nicky.

"The Modern Search for the Real Jesus"   by Robert Strimple

This is a page of links to some articles:
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/menus/historical.html

This is a more general article:
http://www.apologetics.com/default.jsp?bodycontent=/articles/historical_apologetics/habermas-nt.html


Probably the best piece to read. Read this first.
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/ffbruce/ntdocrli/ntdocont.htm

That ought to keep you out of mischief for a while.

Cheers,

Keith

[Nicky007]

Great. Thanks, Keith.

I hope you didnt spend all of your time during the past three weeks digging up these sources   

> That ought to keep you out of mischief for a while.

That I'm not so sure about   

Nicky.

[kmorse]

No, I didn't spend all my time doing that. I was slow in posting the list, however.

I hope you find them helpful. It's certainly not an exhaustive list, but it's a start.

[PH]

At the moment I'm reading a bit on this page.
Don't know what to think of it. But I think, as a Christian it is good to sharpen your thoughts.

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

They say that rock, even christian rock, is blasphemy.

It's full of things to think about. But I don't really share his opinion mostly. Although, still I see and recognise a lot of things that he mentions there.

-Paco

[Nicky007]

They say that rock, even christian rock, is blasphemy.

That's of course bull, Paco.

Those guys seem to have no awareness of the true spiritual prog: Arena, Dream Theater, Pallas, Sieges Even, Vanden Plas, Kamelot, Ten, 3, etc etc.

Although I feel very comfortable being a Lutheran Christian, I have to face that the entire Christian community is basically oblivious to the tremendous spiritually being explored by these groups.

Of course there have been and are anti-Christian rock groups like Slayer and Death, but I myself avoid them and dont regard them as representatives of my values.

Somehow most Christians seem to be very careful, often timid. Everything that's not nice and pleasant is classified as anti-Christian. And "nice and pleasant" I cant use about the sort of music that I dig.

If you played Witch Hunt on the local church hifi, you'd see all the aunties in wheelchairs get up and scramble away as if someone had shot'm in the ass - more efficient healing than the mumbo-jumbo Jesus-healers 

Instead these Christians get their aggressions out on all sorts of convoluted intrigues among each other 

What to do about it ? Yeah, good question. Been thinkin lots bout it.

Nicky.

[PH]

You have read the whole article in less than ten minutes?

Wow...


-Paco

[Nicky007]

Well, Paco, I saw names like Amy Grant, Sandi Patti, and Michael W. Smith, and I just thought: Forget it !

Nicky.

[Peter]

http://www.av1611.org/crock.html

Oh dear, what a sad site. Could have been written by the guys I grew up with (Adventist church). "It all feels and looks so evil, so it must be evil".... For me, it all comes down to this:

I will not listen to music that contains lyrics or schemes that "play" with the concepts of my belief; that's not the way to look into the subject of god.
Example: I'm not overly sure how to deal with Iron Maiden, so I'm not listening to them. They create a demonic atmosphere I do not like. Period.
Example from the other side: Depeche Mode - "Blasphemous Rumours": great song. Not my opinion, but Martin Gore's (I believe) and acceptable as just that.

And bashing people like Amy Grant and others.... hey we're all sinners, right? Pointing at people and screaming: "hey, (s)he's evil, so don't deal with her/him"... we're not the ones to judge.

*shakes head*

[PH]

Yeah, I also kind of react like that. But still... well... I want to be sure and take it from scripture instead of my own good or bad feelings.
But it has to be said, I don't take someones word for it, just because he uses scripture. I want to read it for myself.

Nothing wrong with a bit of mirror looking every now and then though.

And Nicky, the bands you mention there are of course not satanic. And personally I don't think it's bad to listen to them, but saying that they're spiritual.
I mean, when is someone spiritual?
We both agree they are gifted musicians, but does it mean that everything that comes from them is spiritual? That it is spiritual music?



-Paco

[Nicky007]

... does it mean that everything that comes from them is spiritual? That it is spiritual music?

YES !!!

As spiritual as Bach, Wagner, and Rachmaninoff !

Just because they dont have "I was saved by Jesus, yeah, yeah, yeah !" in all their songs, it doesnt make'm less spiritual and God-fearing than e.g. Bach.

Face it, world !  Our beloved prog musicians are intelligent, passionate, and seeking dudes, and such people experiment with new ways of expressing their devotion.

Nicky.

[PH]

So what's Spock's Beard's Snow about?
I mean, I listened to it today (enjoyed it very much!), but I cannot get a grip on the story... The booklet and the extra written text doesn't help me that much either... Perhaps because English is not my native language...

Just because they dont have "I was saved by Jesus, yeah, yeah, yeah !" in all their songs, it doesnt make'm less spiritual and God-fearing than e.g. Bach.

Hahaha now you're making a big contrast! "I was saved by Jesus, yeah, yeah, yeah!" is a bit too shallow, don't you think? Indeed, we won't find that in Prog. Not even in Neal Morse's solo albums. (Not in that way at least.) And also not in Bach's music.

I know that Bach was a christian. But how can someone who's not a christian be God-fearing?? God-fearing is deeply religious... Devoted to God.

-Paco

[maddox]

So what's Spock's Beard's Snow about?
I mean, I listened to it today (enjoyed it very much!), but I cannot get a grip on the story... The booklet and the extra written text doesn't help me that much either... Perhaps because English is not my native language...

Roughly it's about a boy from the 'platte land' who has a divine gift and decides to go to the big city somewhere in the states to learn about himself and his gift.

And then all sorts of bad things occurs.

[PH]

Roughly it's about a boy from the 'platte land' who has a divine gift and decides to go to the big city somewhere in the states to learn about himself and his gift.

Ok, but what's behind the story?
I mean, this was of course written during Neal's conversion. I'm sure there's a meaning to it.

-Paco

[Nicky007]

... Neal's conversion.

What sorta conversion was this, Paco ?

Nicky.

[PH]

 

[Nicky007]

I thought I was the one with  but now it's 

Nicky.

[maddox]

Then i settle for a " ".

[kmorse]

The "conversion" was Neal's embrace of Christianity -- at least something resembling Christianity. Some of his views are more than a bit unorthodox.