Fan Club - to be or not to be

[The Butterfly Man]

Well my old fan club membership number was 894 so there were considerably more members of the Cage than there are registered on this forum (even if the numbering started at 100 !)

Hi there, I used to send the membership packages (magazine and fanclub cd's) to all the new members of The Cage until The Cage became an internet-only fanclub. I just wanted to point out that it doesn't say anything that your membership number was 894, thus implying there were at least 894 members in The Cage at the time.
For example, if there were 150 members in the first year of The Cage's existance and only 100 renewed at the end of the year, all the new members would get a membership number from 150 onwards. Even though there were already 100 existing members. Do you get what I mean?

To add to the discussion: I would find it really great if The Cage resurrected in one way or another!

Tom

[mdread666]

For example, if there were 150 members in the first year of The Cage's existance and only 100 renewed at the end of the year, all the new members would get a membership number from 150 onwards. Even though there were already 100 existing members. Do you get what I mean?

I do get what you mean, that is to say that it doesn't necessarily mean that there were 894 current members, but it still means that there were at least 894 unique members spread out over the lifespan of The Cage. That is still quite an improvement on the 546 members listed for this site!
It would perhaps be interesting to see how it compares to the number of people who have registered for the online Cage - do you have access to that info ?

To add to the discussion: I would find it really great if The Cage resurrected in one way or another!

Excellent !

[cabo]

One way to reach all members is to send an mail through the forum to registred members emailaddress. I don't know if this forum has such an option but if such a mail was send i believe more would sign up for a new fan club. In every forum there are a lot of lurkers that will show up f.i. whenever a new album of tour is on.

 F.I. i have been on a Van Halen forum for 12 years, and every time there is some news about an album or a tour the forum explodes

[erik]

It would perhaps be interesting to see how it compares to the number of people who have registered for the online Cage - do you have access to that info ?

Over a thousand, but the list is flawed as it contains many invalid e-mail adresses and double entries. Also, as it's for free, it doesn't give an indication of how many people would be willing to pay a membership fee. Still, it's an impressive number and it does give an indication of how many people are more than averagely interested in the band (just like the number of subscribers to the Verglas newsletter does, don't know what that number currently is).

What would fans be willing to pay for; I second what has been said by many others: give members something exclusive, both in terms of material (exclusive cd's/bonus tracks etc) as well as inside information (interviews, studio diaries etc).

A "non-virtual" fanzine is great of course, but it's a hell of lot of work! Writing, editing, lay out, getting it printed and then putting it in envelopes to send it out to the database you have to keep up to date, it's a demanding task I know Also, the internet allows for news to be spread fast, so with a magazine you're always running behind and you will have to compensate this with (e-mail) newsletters in between. A magazine should then complement this with the more in depth stuff. Besides the effort that has to be put into a fanzine, keeping it "virtual" means you save printing and postage costs, which lowers the membership fee (this is one of the main reasons why The Cage changed to this).

The Marillion Web model is a prime example of how it can be done but is not easy to build and maintain: they have "sub-Webs" in various countries (The Web Holland, The Web Germany, etc.) that bring out magazines in their respective languages and all members receive an exclusive Christmas cd every year with interesting material. But for that you need a lot of members and a lot of volunteers to make it all happen! A worldwide club with a universal English magazine is a more feasible option.

Besides the Web fan clubs, Marillion have more acitivities that may serve as an inspiration: they offer a plethora of releases on their Racket label (live cd's, DVD's, making of's, Front Row Club series), they host great fan Conventions/Weekends which are attended by fans from all over the world and their website is excellent.

To conclude, I suppose the thing to reinvigorate the interest in Arena would be the release of a new album and a subsequent tour. As Arena are on a sort of hiatus at the moment, activity here on the forum and also at The Cage is running low (btw, we will soon be putting an interview we did a while ago with Mick and Clive on our website! I'll post here to let you all know when it's out).

[dacook]

Hi, Clive

First, thanks to mdread666 for pointing this out on the Pendragon forums. 

I am more than happy to support the bands that I love to make this great music, including fan clubs, paying in advance for albums (the Marillion and Mostly Autumn model) and so on. I look forward to a new Arena album and would love to see you in concert, although to date, no venue you have gigged at in the UK have ever confirmed to me if they allow children in. I would never visit a gig without my (13 year old) daughter, as she's a huge music fan. As well as her "pop pap", she loves prog (since she first heard it in 2000, she's loved "The Butterfly Man"!).

I know how traffic on a website can wane as I help run www.ex5tech.com, a support site for the Yamaha EX5 Synthesizer, and traffic wise it is so quiet compared to 2001 when we took it over. But we still have a core of fans and new users, and so we still run it.

I tend to watch the Pendragon forum, but don't post too often when things are quiet regarding band activity and you don't hear often from the Pendragon lads on the forum, which is a shame. I'm sure it would be more active if they "dropped in" a little more often and took part in the discussions.

If this forum is active and it's a chance to interact with both fans and the band then I'm happy to give it a go.

And a fan club that gives the fans a little extra, I'm more than happy to support.

[mdread666]

Welcome dacook - nice to have you on board 

[JJ II]

I suppose the thing to reinvigorate the interest in Arena would be the release of a new album and a subsequent tour.

I think this is too easy said. People tend to shift attention to other music and activities in silent periods. I think when there's a long hiatus, without news, you lose interest ánd a certain level of attention. I've spoken to people who simply 'missed' Pepper's Ghost. Let alone the interesting side projects the band-members do.

If you are Genesis, you can recreate that attention, if you're Arena or IQ or Landmarq, probably not. It's like on TV, people 'ZAP' away once there seems to be something interesting elsewhere.

There must be a way to create a news letter, even if it's not a paper one, but a decent pdf (like our Biography was), with lots of news, stories, reviews, etc. With a regulair update and pre-sale offers and other exclusive items. The original plan after the demise of the magazine wás to have a very active newsletter, frequent updates of the website and interesting offers (Contagion The Max, e.g.) but not much of that happened, simply because neither the band nor The Cage have provided the infrastructure or content to create this flow of information.

For example, it was fans who brought in the news about Blind Ego, the Caamore EP's, etc. from other sources. There is no addes values of being subscribed if your not 'the first to know'. I realize that not everyone is interested in all the side-project, but at least it keeps the flow of information going and you keep 'connected'.

[Nicky007]

I realize that not everyone is interested in all the side-projects, but at least it keeps the flow of information going and you keep 'connected'.

I very much subscribe to this, JJ.

I must admit that I find Arena far more exciting than any of the sideprojects (although I'm not that familiar with Caamora, there seems to be a lot of depth to this one, if Clive spent 25 years on it), and therefore I've been pleading strongly for the guys to concentrate on A; but I certainly find some of the sideprojects - particularly Kino - very enjoyable, and I find all sideprojects interesting in some way or other.

I think it's natural for fans to be interested in the musicians, particularly their musical explorations.

So, to add up, imo the coming fan club should be open to all information about Arena sideprojects, but of course in a structured way, so that the people interested in solely Arena aren't bothered. Now that storage is no longer a problem, this inclusiveness oughtn't either be.

Info and discussions on other bands, metaphysics, whims etc. could suitably remain in The Shattered Room, at least initially.

Nicky.

[erik]

I think this is too easy said. People tend to shift attention to other music and activities in silent periods. I think when there's a long hiatus, without news, you lose interest ánd a certain level of attention. I've spoken to people who simply 'missed' Pepper's Ghost. Let alone the interesting side projects the band-members do.

If you are Genesis, you can recreate that attention, if you're Arena or IQ or Landmarq, probably not. It's like on TV, people 'ZAP' away once there seems to be something interesting elsewhere.

I see your point and I agree that a long silence causes a loss of attention and interest, but I think you should distinguish between hard core fans and people with a more passing interest. The first group will stick around, the latter you may lose, but they're not the ones who will subscribe to a fanclub that has to be paid for anyway. I do not mean to say that long silences are no problem, quite the contrary, I think you should keep the interest very much alive, at least with frequent newsletters and an active website. If there's a period with more activity in related projects than the band itself, then report about those, I think there are enough people who are interested in those activities as well. Still, the best way to keep the flame alive is to release a new Arena album. That's what I was trying to say.

There must be a way to create a news letter, even if it's not a paper one, but a decent pdf (like our Biography was), with lots of news, stories, reviews, etc. With a regulair update and pre-sale offers and other exclusive items. The original plan after the demise of the magazine wás to have a very active newsletter, frequent updates of the website and interesting offers (Contagion The Max, e.g.) but not much of that happened, simply because neither the band nor The Cage have provided the infrastructure or content to create this flow of information.

For example, it was fans who brought in the news about Blind Ego, the Caamore EP's, etc. from other sources. There is no addes values of being subscribed if your not 'the first to know'. I realize that not everyone is interested in all the side-project, but at least it keeps the flow of information going and you keep 'connected'.

I agree that there has to be a way to create a frequent newsletter and active website with exclusive news and goodies, and that this has not yet materialized with the new Cage set up. You need two things to achieve this: 1) a committed group of volunteers wiling to put time and effort into it and 2) a continued commitment of the band itself. The Cage team has had as many line up changes as the band itself, but there's still a group of people including myself who want to be keepers of the flame. However, lately it doesn't seem to have been on the priority list of the band, in concordance with their "Arena time out" and occupation with other projects and activities. Contagion The Max simply just won't materialize eventhough it's been promised ages ago and is basically ready, and the flow of information has been scant. I fully understand that Clive is absorbed by Caamora/the She project which is his long time dream fulfilled, but, as said before, such an important side project can also serve as a way to keep the interest alive and can also be channeled through the fan club. Add to this the technical problems The Cage has been plagued with (with the domain name of the website, the log in system and the newsletter tool) and it all dwindles. Indeed, this forum has now become the primary source for news about Arena and related projects.

Quoting Clive's initial post:

Or should we just let sleeping dogs lie?

You should feed the dog, otherwise it starves!

[Nicky007]

I think this is too easily said. People tend to shift attention to other music and activities in silent periods. I think when there's a long hiatus, without news, you lose interest ánd a certain level of attention. I've spoken to people who simply 'missed' Pepper's Ghost. Let alone the interesting side projects the band-members do.

I think you also have an important point here, JJ.

We are very fortunate to live in a time when an overwhelming amount of great music is being created. That's of course nice for us proggies, but hard for the groups, because we have literally hundreds of topnotch groups competing for the attention of a few million listeners, who mostly don't have much money.

Here in the Room, we obviously don't have the capacity to caretake for all these wonderful groups, so we should concentrate on Arena and sideprojects and do everything possible to bring their music out to all the people who can enjoy it, and as you stress, JJ, keep the fans tuned in.

Nicky.

[Pedro]

Hi everyone,
Late to the party but still keen!
Yes I'd pay to be a member of a fan club that I thought was worthwhile.
Of course, that is a fairly open-ended statement but, to give an example, I am a paid-up member of the Rick Wakeman fan club and for that I get a well presented newsletter that doesn't really tell me much and what it does tell me is usually out of date....BUT I love Rick so I consider it worthwhile.
So, I love Arena and I would definitely be interested in a paid for fan club that provided something even marginally special.
I like the idea of fan-funded projects - pre-paying for CDs or DVDs.
Maybe an intimate gig, deliberately small venue, limited crowd - like the Magenta Gathering DVD project.
Anyway, enough rambling - I could have trashed all that and just said "I'm in"! 

[johninblack]

I could have trashed all that and just said "I'm in"! 

I don't think you could mate, short posts ain't your style!

[Nick B]

I tend to watch the Pendragon forum, but don't post too often when things are quiet regarding band activity and you don't hear often from the Pendragon lads on the forum, which is a shame. I'm sure it would be more active if they "dropped in" a little more often and took part in the discussions.

Steady on fella!  A bit unfair I think!! To be honest I can't think of any forum that has regular postings from ANY band members, except perhaps Frost* and Fish's mailing list.

I usually post something on Nick's Ramblings + News at least once a month and include personal and rare pictures, this is usually a fairly indepth thing with lots of news and views etc. I always read the forum and answer any questions that are put forward to me and always have done. This is something that has always been very important [remember back in the Mob days and hand written letters to fans?] and I certainly don't think people feel we just can't be arsed to get involved now.

And the response we get?

Very little compared to the 1,000 hits a day on the site and I really feel that most people simply want to check for  news. It is probably true to say that cyber world is a totally different place from the real world!

There is a stack of work that needs to get done at Pendragon HQ everyday, and we work long hours, but most of that time goes into  organising gigs, writing the new album and keeping the whole thing afloat . In the words of Merrill Osmond, "what the audience actually see is quite literally 1% of the workload that goes in to a show"

Regards

Nick

[Nicky007]

I was just about to complain that somebody had stolen my name, when I started reading the post and quickly realised who this Nick B is 

So, welcome, Nick Barrett. It's an honor to have you here.

Nicky (Brown).

[Lake of despond]

Welcome Nick!!

We actually appreciate very much your effort and time for all those interesting news in a diary form you provide us with, and no matter how 'dead' forums can look there are many people in the background who are reading it. On this forum Clive is involved too and it's always great to catch your posts from time to time...

Keep on rocking,
we love ya!

[maddox]

Hey, welcome to the room, Nick B. It's a pleasure having you here!. 

[Appelmoes??]

To be honoust, personally I could do without a fanclub actually, but I do think Arena should have one. Comparing to Ayreon Arena doesn't have a really big "internet"-fanbase so a fanclub would be very usefull to keep people updated and informed about the bands business.
I don't need because I will probably hear most stuff through this forum.

So I vote: To be.

(And good luck to the Arena-guys while they are working on a new album )

[GERWING]

Firstly I will introduce myself, I'm Gerwin from the Nehterlands and for years a big Arena fan.

So, to give an answer on to be or not to be, for me it is to be!

[Appelmoes??]

Hi Gerwing

[maddox]

Hidihow, Gerwing. Welcome to the Room. 

[niggly69]

You can count me in.Whatever shape or form a fan club takes,I would be happy to pay membership fees as long as it would be an ongoing venture and not something that folds just after we part with our cash.
A great idea would be fan club only CD's or limited edition packages containing an extra disc.
Why not mirror what Marillion did,get people to sign up for a new album,pay for it in advance,produce a deluxe version containing an extra disc and then print all the subscibers names in the booklet !
Either way,bonus stuff is always welcome by real fans which I think is the way to go.
As I said,count me in whatever happens !
PS - A new album - great !
A tour - brilliant - keep South Wales in mind - The Point in Cardiff is a great venue - www.thepointcardiffbay.com

Cheers,
Nigel.

[Niquicho]

Maybe I'm an old fashioned romantic but I liked the magazine we had. There's nothing better than to feel the paper, smell it and put it away just to postpone the fun a bit. In other words, I would like to see The Cage once again as an active Fan Club with a real mag.

Regarding the online community thing: I just have to force myself and sit down behind the computer before I get on the net, go to some site, read al the previous posts and comment. (I'm behind a computer all day at work and that's already more than I'd like). I was informed about this thread a long while ago but it took me a few weeks to create time. What I want to say: there might be a huge potential of fans out there who don't check this forum (as I didn't until recently).

The coma of The Cage was a result of several aspects, a lack of fans NOT being one of them. (Just remember the last fanclub meeting at De Boerderij.). Some people inside The Cage are still up for it. If Arena are as well then what are we waiting for? Let's start preparing now and launch the new Cage mag together with Arena's next album.

[Jannemannen]

  Greetings from sweden

I'll say a big YES to a fanclub, go for it. Looking forward to your next album. 

mvh Janne Andersson

[maddox]

Greetings from sweden

I'll say a big YES to a fanclub, go for it. Looking forward to your next album. 

mvh Janne Andersson

Greetings back. 

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Well the votes for 'go' are coming in rapidly. Which is good. 

[PH]

Greetings from sweden

I'll say a big YES to a fanclub, go for it. Looking forward to your next album. 

mvh Janne Andersson

Ahh great!
Who opened the can with Arena fans?